interpretation or the making of new code

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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I have seen over the years here and in the field complaints about inspectors and code interpretation.
How can we define a interpretation or just a made up rule.
Stay tuned... :D



(By that I mean visit and/or participate here :happyyes:.)
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
There are several rules in the NEC that are ambiguous and open to interpretation, there are others (most) that are not. 230.70(A)(1) is an example of a section that is open to interpretation, requiring that MC cable be supported every 2' is one that is not because Article 330 says maximum every 6'.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I have seen over the years here and in the field complaints about inspectors and code interpretation.
How can we define a interpretation or just a made up rule.

My opinion only, very carefully!

It is best to inform your inspector that you didn't know "that" rule and ask for a code section. Generally once you have the section he is referring to it is easy to tell if it is a rule subject to his interpretation, or a hard rule. Even then I weight whether it is worth the fight now or in the future. Some times, the cost to do it the way he wants it is not high enough to get on his bad side. Sometimes it is. Also, I have pretended to agree, but this one time to go back and "fix" it is too high, so how about we let it go this time and I will do it the other way from here on?
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
It helps to make the distinction between an actual interpretation (one based on an existing article, section, etc.) and a 'shirt-pocket rule' that has no code backing whatsoever. There's a huge chasm between an inspector saying, "This is what the Code says, and this is the way I interpret it" and "This is what I require because it's always been done this way."

Throughout the industry, there's people who encounter supposed 'Codes' that simply do not exist. Maximum length for conduit runs, splices in panels, taping wire nuts, MWBC's being disallowed, number of receptacles on a dwelling circuit, wrapping devices with tape, ground rods at light poles, color codes......... all straight out of the Urban Legend Electrical Code. Most are from job specs and not AHJ-adopted Codes, some from misinformation, a few put down roots from those who simply do not stay up-to-date with Code changes, others are passed down as folklore from The Elders to the cubbies. And the vast majority of them owe their livelihood because either we don't care to take the time and actually look it up to find out the truth, or simply caving in to the inspector based on economic reasons.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The more you study and get to know NEC the more you will know if something presented to you is from code or is a shirt pocket rule. At very least you will better know how to navigate code to find things you are not quite certain about. Just hanging around this site does help as well, but you really should look up things when they are mentioned just to see for yourself what is in print, if it isn't quoted already.
 
I regularly review sections of the code to check and make sure I understand. The along comes a AHJ and says " that is not to code" or we don't require that".

For example : a recent post about handle ties being required for GD and DW though not a mwbc or on the same strap.

Or in my current situation of AFCI " why you install those on a extension or added outlet. You don't need to do that. We are not requiring them. You are wasting your clients money.

We don't have local amendments and we are bound by state codes.

Where are the limits of these interpretation. What are the boundaries. When is the code call actually new unauthorized code and not legitimate. Who oversees these AHJ.

All in all to me it's about everyone being on't the same page.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I find it best to simply ask for a Code reference. Inspectors are humans, and humans aren't perfect.

Sometimes, the inspector is simply mistaken. Or misinformed. Or taking a specific code out of context. Or applying an oft-used job spec.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Who oversees these AHJ.


In NC the AHJ is at state level. It is the Department of Insurance (DOI) and the Code Enforcement people at county and city levels are under them. I would think CA would have something similar.

Roger
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
roger;1646408[IMG said:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png[/IMG] Originally Posted by flatlander
Who oversees these AHJ.]

In NC the AHJ is at state level. It is the Department of Insurance (DOI) and the Code Enforcement people at county and city levels are under them. I would think CA would have something similar.

Roger
Here the AHJ was created by the state lawmakers, the state elecrical act is the portion of laws in the books that governs most everything the State Elecrical Division does. Anyone that doesn't like something in there is welcome to petition a State Senator to introduce new legislation to make changes, doesn't mean they will get what they want but they are welcome to try.

That said current edition of NEC that is being enforced is also introduced into law by state legislature, but interpretation of it is up to the State Elecrical Division staff. Still if enough people show an interest in some area they will listen to concerns and use them in their interpretations. Just the one special incident here and there is mostly between you and the inspector though the inspector may ask for help in backing him up (for or against what you want) for final decisions from his supervisor, other inspectors, etc. in an area he may not have much experience with.

There is a governing board also though they normally are not involved with every day operation things of this nature.
 
Thanks,

In CA there is the state building and standards commission. However the AHJ is granted to the local building departments.
In some of the local jurisdictions I make work in the AHJ just pull code from thin air. They claim they have the right granted to them as interpretation.
I as many can't seem to grasp that attitude. If the code says thou shall ... how is there an "interpretation " of Na we don't do that. Or the opposite.

It seems too much like orwellian in the real world.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Thanks,

In CA there is the state building and standards commission. However the AHJ is granted to the local building departments.
In some of the local jurisdictions I make work in the AHJ just pull code from thin air. They claim they have the right granted to them as interpretation.
I as many can't seem to grasp that attitude. If the code says thou shall ... how is there an "interpretation " of Na we don't do that. Or the opposite.

It seems too much like orwellian in the real world.
That is the drawback of living in higher population areas;)

I'll admit the State Fire Marshal office is more like what you mentioned but the Electrical Division has been fairly no nonsense for the most part. If it isn't in print in the NEC or the State Electrical Act it is not an official rule that must be followed. Those that are not real electricians will not say so but those that do know what they are doing don't have much issue with the SED.
 
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