680.8 Overhead Clearance High Voltage For Swimming Pools

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docperio44

Member
Location
United States
Hello All,

I decided to make this a new post. I'm having issues with inspectors.

I'm building a pool on a lot where overhead high voltage runs through the back property line for which my setback for a pool is 7.5 feet.

I have over 22.5 clearance from these lines. However, the inspector is saying I need 10 feet horizontal as referenced in 680.8. From all the posts here, I have interpreted 680.8 to mean that if you don't have 10 feet horizontal clearance, you need 22.5 feet overall clearance in ANY direction. And vice versa, if you don't have 22.5 clearance, you at least need 10 feet horizontal.

Am I right? This doesn't read clear at all in the code. Any references to help out?

Thanks so much! Cheers
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Hello All,

I decided to make this a new post. I'm having issues with inspectors.

I'm building a pool on a lot where overhead high voltage runs through the back property line for which my setback for a pool is 7.5 feet.

I have over 22.5 clearance from these lines. However, the inspector is saying I need 10 feet horizontal as referenced in 680.8. From all the posts here, I have interpreted 680.8 to mean that if you don't have 10 feet horizontal clearance, you need 22.5 feet overall clearance in ANY direction. And vice versa, if you don't have 22.5 clearance, you at least need 10 feet horizontal.

Am I right? This doesn't read clear at all in the code. Any references to help out?

Thanks so much! Cheers

Your inspector is correct. 680.8 (C) from inside wall of pool.........not less than 10'. Your gonna have to pay POCO to go underground. 2011 has a picture.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I'm building a pool on a lot where overhead high voltage runs through the back property line for which my setback for a pool is 7.5 feet.

I have over 22.5 clearance from these lines. However, the inspector is saying I need 10 feet horizontal as referenced in 680.8. From all the posts here, I have interpreted 680.8 to mean that if you don't have 10 feet horizontal clearance, you need 22.5 feet overall clearance in ANY direction. And vice versa, if you don't have 22.5 clearance, you at least need 10 feet horizontal.

You say "high voltage runs", what is the voltage and which section of table 680.8 is applicable?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Your inspector is correct. 680.8 (C) from inside wall of pool.........not less than 10'. Your gonna have to pay POCO to go underground. 2011 has a picture.


Cavie I see this as 22.5' if you are inside the 10' horizontal clearance. Outside the 10' you don't need the 22.5' clearance
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Ok so Dennis & Cavie differ in opinion like me and the inspector. Is there any way to go straight to NEC for the answer?

Not really.

Table 680.8(A) states clearance in any direction to the water level etc. So if the wire is directly over the pool it needs to be 22.5 feet. The distance is 14.5' fom any platform, stand or diving area and once you go horizontal more than 10' then article 680 does not apply.

I am not sure why those measurement would be there if we had to stay 10' away from the pool.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is an article from mike holt http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/pools-and-spas-part-1-3

904ecmCBfig1.jpg
 

Iron_Ben

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, PA
If the high voltage is owned by the POCO as seems likely, then the NESC and not NEC applies. I suggest getting the POCO's input promptly. Also, some states have an Overhead Powerline Safety Act or similar which could come into play, although in this situation the NESC is likely more restrictive.
 

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
If the high voltage is owned by the POCO as seems likely, then the NESC and not NEC applies. I suggest getting the POCO's input promptly. Also, some states have an Overhead Powerline Safety Act or similar which could come into play, although in this situation the NESC is likely more restrictive.

I would say both the NEC and the NESC apply to existing utility lines.

Besides do a search on swimming pools under electric utility lines and you?ll see several cases where the utility has sued individuals for placing swimming pools under there utility
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I would say both the NEC and the NESC apply to existing utility lines.

Besides do a search on swimming pools under electric utility lines and you?ll see several cases where the utility has sued individuals for placing swimming pools under there utility


There have been cases where the utility have refused to move their lines for the pool.
 

docperio44

Member
Location
United States
I would say both the NEC and the NESC apply to existing utility lines.

Besides do a search on swimming pools under electric utility lines and you?ll see several cases where the utility has sued individuals for placing swimming pools under there utility

The city has specifically reference NEC 680.8 as their guide. I'll talk to the PoCo and see where I can get. I had a electrical manager at the building dept answer me this today: "We do not require the PoCo lines to be 10? horizontal because of the height of the wire only the service latteral."
 

GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The city has specifically reference NEC 680.8 as their guide. I'll talk to the PoCo and see where I can get. I had a electrical manager at the building dept answer me this today: "We do not require the PoCo lines to be 10? horizontal because of the height of the wire only the service latteral."
At least in the [2011] code the section C description is as clear as the English language can make it, and this is supported by the illustration itself.
The 10' horizontal distance defines the zone within which the vertical clearance limits apply. The dotted lines showing vertical clearance requirements end at the vertical line representing the 10' mark. ("Horizontal limit of clearance" not "Horizontal clearance"!
If your AHJ does not understand and accept this, they are showing a clear misunderstanding of both the letter of the code and the illustration. By the way, the illustrations, unlike the fine print comments and the Handbook text, are part of the statutory language of the NEC and are enforceable.

Any lines subject to the NEC within the pool plus 10' area are subject to the vertical clearances in part A and B of the table.
Outside that area, other clearance rules apply, so you still cannot have the wires at 8' off the ground. :)
 

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
At least in the [2011] code the section C description is as clear as the English language can make it, and this is supported by the illustration itself.
The 10' horizontal distance defines the zone within which the vertical clearance limits apply. The dotted lines showing vertical clearance requirements end at the vertical line representing the 10' mark. ("Horizontal limit of clearance" not "Horizontal clearance"!
If your AHJ does not understand and accept this, they are showing a clear misunderstanding of both the letter of the code and the illustration. :)

I agree, the horizontal limit component is a required element of the discussion otherwise even power wires out on the pole in the front of the house would be part of the equation.
 

Iron_Ben

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, PA
The OP labels the overhead lines "high voltage". The term can be interpreted in various ways, but a HV line is typically 4.16 kv, 7.62 kv, 13.2 kv, 34.5 kv, etcetera. Note that the excellent illustration in post #8 applies to lines 750 volts to ground and below. That and the fact that these are POCO lines again indicates to me that NESC rules apply.
 

GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Note that the excellent illustration in post #8 applies to lines 750 volts to ground and below. That and the fact that these are POCO lines again indicates to me that NESC rules apply.
However, we can also note that the table which provides the horizontal and vertical dimensions has exactly the same description for the applicability of parts A, B and C regardless of voltage. All that changes is some of the dimensions.

I do agree that the wording of the basic article that refers to the table and the illustration limits it to service drops and other wiring. I would argue that if the medium/high voltage lines (greater than 750V but less 15kV) are in fact service drops (it could be, although not likely for residential!) then the article would apply. If the lines are POCO distribution lines not specifically terminating on the property in question, then I agree that the NESC will be the prime governing factor.
 

docperio44

Member
Location
United States
At least in the [2011] code the section C description is as clear as the English language can make it, and this is supported by the illustration itself.
The 10' horizontal distance defines the zone within which the vertical clearance limits apply. The dotted lines showing vertical clearance requirements end at the vertical line representing the 10' mark. ("Horizontal limit of clearance" not "Horizontal clearance"!
If your AHJ does not understand and accept this, they are showing a clear misunderstanding of both the letter of the code and the illustration. By the way, the illustrations, unlike the fine print comments and the Handbook text, are part of the statutory language of the NEC and are enforceable.

Any lines subject to the NEC within the pool plus 10' area are subject to the vertical clearances in part A and B of the table.
Outside that area, other clearance rules apply, so you still cannot have the wires at 8' off the ground. :)

Can you copy and paste this 2011 wording by any chance? or link to it. I might have an older one.
 

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Can you copy and paste this 2011 wording by any chance? or link to it. I might have an older one.

We are using 2008 and you would still be compliant under 2008 code.

I only caution you to get the utilities approval. Electric utilities always have an easement where their lines run across someone?s property. The on- line search I did the utility claimed 50 ft. that would be 25 ft. in both directions centered on there lines.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Can you copy and paste this 2011 wording by any chance? or link to it. I might have an older one.
The 2014 is the same as the 2011 and the 2008

680.8 Overhead Conductor Clearances. Overhead conductors
shall meet the clearance requirements in this section.
Where a minimum clearance from the water level is given, the
measurement shall be taken from the maximum water level of
the specified body of water.
(A) Power. With respect to service drop conductors and
open overhead wiring, swimming pool and similar installations
shall comply with the minimum clearances given in
Table 680.8 and illustrated in Figure 680.8.
Informational Note: Open overhead wiring as used in this
article typically refers to conductor(s) not in an enclosed
raceway.
(B) Communications Systems. Communications, radio, and
television coaxial cables within the scope of Articles 800
through 820 shall be permitted at a height of not less than
3.0 m (10 ft) above swimming and wading pools, diving structures,
and observation stands, towers, or platforms.
(C) Network-Powered Broadband Communications Systems.
The minimum clearances for overhead networkpowered
broadband communications systems conductors from
pools or fountains shall comply with the provisions in Table
680.8 for conductors operating at 0 to 750 volts to ground
 
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