Change orders

[Strathead]

One needs to look at why you are behind. If it is because the GC or other's have held up progress, that is not your fault - if it is because you are not where you planned to be at that point, maybe you pulled some/all of the crew to do another job and got behind, and not a problem caused by others involved - then I think you have to eat that overtime.

There is no right or wrong here. But if you do a bunch of change orders in the middle of the project and later on, you need additional personnel or weekends, even if it is because you have other obligations and you now need to use those people elsewhere, you have a valid argument to request overtime or a time extension that you already justified and they didn't dispute. All depends on which side of the fence you are on and who is the better debater.

[kwired]

There is no right or wrong here. But if you do a bunch of change orders in the middle of the project and later on, you need additional personnel or weekends, even if it is because you have other obligations and you now need to use those people elsewhere, you have a valid argument to request overtime or a time extension that you already justified and they didn't dispute. All depends on which side of the fence you are on and who is the better debater.

All in the details and you are correct that there is no right or wrong or a one answer fits all situations. Possible those change orders in middle of project should have been higher amount to compensate for putting you behind on what you did bid on.

[Strathead]

All in the details and you are correct that there is no right or wrong or a one answer fits all situations. Possible those change orders in middle of project should have been higher amount to compensate for putting you behind on what you did bid on.

I tried to imply earlier. You put the extension on EVERY change order. IF the GC comes back and disputes the request for extension then THAT opens to door to discuss a higher rate. if they don't THEN you have paperwork to fight them if they get aggressive on insisting you work overtime later on.

For the record, most GC's I work for, I work with. I still do all my paperwork the same. That way if they get militant, I WILL be the one who comes out on top.

[cowboyjwc]

I know contractors that live for change orders. I've always tell people that if the bid is too good to be true it probably isn't a good bid and you'll start getting hit with the, "oh we didn't bid that."

[Strathead]

I know contractors that live for change orders. I've always tell people that if the bid is too good to be true it probably isn't a good bid and you'll start getting hit with the, "oh we didn't bid that."

I don't like change orders, however if the people who decide to build it want to send it out to multiple general contractors for competitive bidding, then I have grown out of solving their problems by asking 20 questions during the bid. If the plans say do it, then bid it that way. If it is wrong the change order it is.

[zog]

My company makes huge profits on change orders and extras.

Same here

[infinity]

Same here

Might be my boss's boat.

[petersonra]

A lot of contractors of all kinds live off of change orders. Some are very proficient at it.

I ran across an EC that did not run a single spare wire on a project. The whole reason was to get bigger change orders later on. They had trained their crews to do nothing that might negatively impact the chances of a later change order.

I hate that kind of thing but if the people footing the bill allow it out of stupidity or some other reason they pretty much deserve to be stolen from like this.

[kwired]

I know contractors that live for change orders. I've always tell people that if the bid is too good to be true it probably isn't a good bid and you'll start getting hit with the, "oh we didn't bid that."

Better bid for it if it was in the specifications is how I see that.

Where I see trouble the most is smaller design build type projects - client don't know what they want other then some of the major items, ask a few guys for a estimate and then pick the lowest one - reality is the lowest one didn't include any options that the owner wants but never thought about. I sometimes might throw in some "potential add-ons" to at least make them think about what they might be getting with each estimate.

[JFletcher]

Do we all agree that we don't make money on change orders? Yet we get these youngsters PMs from college, beating you up on pricing for every single Change order request submitted(Throughout the entire project). It is a daunting task.Constantly asking to breakout pricing. Even when you breakout pricing (labor and materials), they want you to breakout line item by line item.


I want to see what kind of approaches taken, when submitting change order request, to keep GC's questions to a minimum. What are they actually looking for???

When I first started doing v/d/v work, mostly for hotel owners, I'd agree whole-heartedly about not making money. After a few projects of endless dickering, non-payment, getting burned, etc., we just specified in our contracts that any and all change orders would have to be paid 100% up front before work was started.

"You want an additional 4 WAPs and 7 additional cameras here, here, and there? Okay, let me get back to you on a price..."
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"....that will be $w,xyz. How will you be paying for that?"

We worked for the owner tho not the GC. Owners, in my experience, want a turn-key, complete project price, not a "well, the wiring will cost this much, the cameras that much, unless you get the Super-Duper Acme Upgrade, which are xxx$ more..."