Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Thread: Controls geek running pipe.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    SCV Ca, USA
    Posts
    407
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffKiper View Post
    I am learning so put me in my place if this is not an acceptable question.

    Guys I own a 2 man industrial controls shop. We assemble UL508A panels, controls, programming, etc. We specialize in machine safety and fast turn around on small jobs.

    On big jobs I farm out 100% of the pipe and field wiring. My contractor quotes it and everyone wins. I HAVE NO INTENTION OF DOING THIS ON BIG JOBS!!!

    I get a lot of calls for a systems that they need within 24 hours. I can't find a reliable contractor to run pipe on a short notice. My go to contractors are busy and need a few days notice to mobilize for a job. These customers want everything done at nights or weekends. So a lot of time we are left to run pipe on machines. (Field disconnects, light curtains, air dump valves, Emergency stop buttons , HMI, PLC, controls only stuff , you get the idea)

    I'm setup to run pipe just in case I need to. I have 700 pony, 300, Chicago, etc.I have a greenlee clampshell setup with fittings for 1/2" ,3/4" & 1".

    What do you guys use to quote stuff like this. It's all on machine piping? The are usually cramped areas with lots of obstacles. We have always just used T&M on these jobs. I want to understand and learn how to bid these jobs.

    I have seen a few guys with NECA books and they are aways way under on time. I see those books as new install on system. Most of these jobs are what I would call a retrofit. I don't own any of those books or software. I'm alawys willing to learn and spend money where it makes "DOLLARS" to spend money.
    So, basically you are the subcontractor to the contractor who (as you mentioned) “quotes it”.
    This is a typical turnkey project that doesn't involve you with owner.. . . the contractor does all the talking--although you need some degree of expertise to come up with the price so the contractor can quote his price that he can show to the owner's project manager.
    Your experience is the good mentor to guide you. In turnkey projects like this, you don't enjoy the luxury of “I'll get to it when I get to it” freedom. Some of these projects you have to do only when business activity is not in full swing eg at night or holidays.
    Full coordination with contractor is essential especially when working in cramped spaces or even dangerous areas which could hinder full use of your two-man crew.
    I'm not saying it can't be done but with so many variables, T&M would be most beneficial for a two-man operation.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Tampa, FL, USA
    Posts
    1,751
    I can't tell from your posts or profile if you are a licensed electrical contractor. If you are not, are you legally allowed to be doing the piping and wiring you are talking about? If you are not allowed, I suggest hiring an EC for your staff.

    As far as pricing is concerned, that is all a matter of experience. Make your best guess on labor hours. Keep good records of what you did and how long it took. If you are low, next time guess higher. Eventually you will learn how to get close.

    Hourly rate = labor costs/hr + overhead costs/hr + desired profit/hr
    Price = (materials costs * markup) + (hourly rate x labor hours guess) + travel costs

    Don't forget to charge for every single hour you are working the job including the ones where you are sitting at home thinking about how to do the job. (Hint: include in overhead costs.)
    Last edited by Coppersmith; 12-24-17 at 02:08 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    38,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    I can't tell from your posts or profile if you are a licensed electrical contractor. If you are not, are you legally allowed to be doing the piping and wiring you are talking about? If you are not allowed, I suggest hiring an EC for your staff.
    Great comment to bring to the discussion. Just because it is "low voltage" doesn't mean codes and inspections do not apply. Rules can vary from place to place also.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Tampa, FL, USA
    Posts
    1,751
    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Great comment to bring to the discussion.
    Thanks for the support.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Just because it is "low voltage" doesn't mean codes and inspections do not apply.
    Maybe.

    https://standardscatalog.ul.com/stan...tandard_508a_2

    "1.1 These requirements cover industrial control panels intended for general industrial use, operating from a voltage of 1000 volts or less."

    A little "high" for my tastes.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Rules can vary from place to place also.
    Agreed. If they are in fact, low voltage, they would still require a licence to install in my state.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    38,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    "1.1 These requirements cover industrial control panels intended for general industrial use, operating from a voltage of 1000 volts or less."

    A little "high" for my tastes.

    Well to many of us low voltage is under at least 50 volts, but to some, 15kV is still only "medium voltage".

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
    Posts
    6,691
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffKiper View Post
    What do you guys use to quote stuff like this. It's all on machine piping? The are usually cramped areas with lots of obstacles. We have always just used T&M on these jobs. I want to understand and learn how to bid these jobs.
    i've done a lot of control piping and such in food packing and various
    industrial process work, in EMT, GRC, and SS.

    given your focus, i'd leave it at T&M. you are doing it as a courtesy
    to a customer who suffers from advance planning disorder, not as a
    focus of your income plan, correct?

    anyone with a high enough dipsnit index to need a 24 hour turnaround
    without a plan is lame enough to be disconnected from the process to
    reduce your productivity by 2/3. trust me.

    for grins, take the next three jobs you have to do this way, and quote
    them beforehand, for your own information. then, see what your T&M
    bill turns out to be.

    subtract one number from the other. i'll betcha a cheeseburger the bid
    won't be as large as the T&M number. the shortfall comes out of your
    panel build, which is how you make your living.
    ~New signature under construction.~
    ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •