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Thread: Cost for a primary line

  1. #11
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    180109-1356 EST

    Following is the DTE Rate Book, and at about p64 is where line charges are discussed. This is about 1/4 of the way into the .PDF file and is headed as C6.

    https://www2.dteenergy.com/wps/wcm/c...df?MOD=AJPERES

    Above did not work. It does when I go to a suitable browser.

    .
    Last edited by gar; 01-09-18 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #12
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    180109-1525 EST

    My son has now had an informal discussion with DTE and the ballpark would be $30,000 to $60,000. All new poles and lines would be required based on Michigan rules. Any customer requesting a new service has to pay the full cost (none of it can be spread to other customers). When counties require permits it is $1000 per permit.

    A 100 HP rotary phase converter is in the $7000 range, and a 60 HP a good fraction of the 100 HP, but two 60 HP units could still be a good direction. Redundancy is one reason, and lower losses at lighter loads is another. A high inertia load on the converter could be useful for short power dips. Clearly rotary converters are the way to go. One does not very often need full power capability and thus smaller units paralleled make more sense.

    .

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Midland, TX, USA
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    5

    Depends on nearest 3 Phase site

    At my old fab shop we had single phase power and got a great deal on a 3 phase lathe and mill. Price was so good we couldn't pass but did not have 3 phase power to run. Was in the same position that you are and only needed a little over a 1/4 mile of 3 phase ran to our shop, however, the nearest 3 phase was miles away and the cost would have been HUGE to have it run to our shop.

    I ended up using rotary phase converters to get 3 phase and had really good luck with them. The rotary don't produce a loss in the HP of any of your equipment like the static kind do and are relatively easy to install. I got mine from Phoenix Phase converters and had great luck with them.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #14
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    Placerville, CA, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad45 View Post
    At my old fab shop we had single phase power and got a great deal on a 3 phase lathe and mill. Price was so good we couldn't pass but did not have 3 phase power to run. Was in the same position that you are and only needed a little over a 1/4 mile of 3 phase ran to our shop, however, the nearest 3 phase was miles away and the cost would have been HUGE to have it run to our shop.

    I ended up using rotary phase converters to get 3 phase and had really good luck with them. The rotary don't produce a loss in the HP of any of your equipment like the static kind do and are relatively easy to install. I got mine from Phoenix Phase converters and had great luck with them.

    Hope this helps.
    Use of a properly rated VFD will not only cause no loss of HP but will also provide optional speed control and very soft starting.
    You would have to make sure that the motor is inverter rated or else use a sine wave filter or large load reactor on the VFD output.

  5. #15
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    180115-1705 EST

    GoldDigger:

    Those features would not be of any value with two machines that might run simultaneously. If just running one machine at a time, and either or both machines are CNC, then not likely of much value.

    A rotary phase converter may have the advantage of riding thru short duration power problems by adding inertia to the inverter. In some cases a lot of money can be lost if power is interrupted to a CNC causing a crash.

    .

  6. #16
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    Add to previous post.

    If these are small induction motor machines, then separate VFDs may be the best route.

    .

  7. #17
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    Jan 2016
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    PA
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    how many machines require 3 ph
    all motors?
    approximate load for each


    on another note
    a $30 mil home and using 50k for a 3 ph upcost
    0.17% increase
    that should be moot if you can afford a 30 mil home



  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar View Post
    180109-1525 ESTOne does not very often need full power capability and thus smaller units paralleled make more sense.

    .
    Gar,

    Can rotary units be paralleled? How does that work?
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  9. #19
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    180115-2345 EST

    electrofelon:

    I have not experimentally tried it, but I don't believe there should be a significant problem. Of course one would probably want to use two identical units.

    The two single phase input wires are a pass thru anyway. Phasing would need to be correct on the third wire. This is just a matter of how the motors are wired. The two single phase wires have a source impedance defined by the power company (unless we add a large inertia load on the converters and look at transient loss of single phase power).

    I would expect the internal impedance when looking back at the converter third wire would be about equal for each converter. Thus, the generated phase should balance fairly well.

    .

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar View Post
    180115-2345 EST

    electrofelon:

    I have not experimentally tried it, but I don't believe there should be a significant problem. Of course one would probably want to use two identical units.

    The two single phase input wires are a pass thru anyway. Phasing would need to be correct on the third wire. This is just a matter of how the motors are wired. The two single phase wires have a source impedance defined by the power company (unless we add a large inertia load on the converters and look at transient loss of single phase power).

    I would expect the internal impedance when looking back at the converter third wire would be about equal for each converter. Thus, the generated phase should balance fairly well.

    .
    Do you think you would have them paralleled at start up, or let them spin up then parallel?
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

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