View Poll Results: Who's right

Voters
9. You may not vote on this poll
  • Electrician

    1 11.11%
  • Me

    8 88.89%
Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 82

Thread: 2014 NEC 210.52 question

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    13,270
    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    To me the wall space is broken by the fixed cabinet so the height of the cabinet is irrelevant. The measurement begins at each edge of the cabinet and the space occupied by the cabinet is not part of the wall space just like the other things on the list, doorway, fireplace, etc.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    18,747
    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    I can see the thinking about the space above the cabinet being wall space but that is no different than the wall space above a door or fireplace, in all of those cases it does not count.
    I agree. I can't look at the older code versions right now, but my opinion (based on 2017) is that the "thing that looks a lot like a wall" that is above this cabinet is not "wall space," in the context of 210.52. Therefore, no receptacle is required at all. That said, a receptacle placed in either location in the photo would be allowed by code.

    By the way, I am about to face a similar question. We are planning a kitchen and dining room remodel for later this year. At the present dining room wall, there will be a built-in banquette that will cover the wall space, left to right, and floor to about 30" above the floor. It will block the existing locations of two receptacles. My opinion is that I don't have to add receptacles for that wall. I might anyway, but code will not require it. That will be a conversation that I will have with the GC and perhaps his selected electrician as well.

    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,539
    Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
    space measured around corners) and unbroken along the
    floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces,
    and fixed cabinets that do not have countertops or similar
    work surfaces
    Would this be a similar space? 2017 IMO, could be argued for the outlet above the counter
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    18,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Would this be a similar space? 2017 IMO, could be argued for the outlet above the counter
    I think not. It does not say "similar space." It says "similar work surfaces." We are dealing with a seating area, not a work surface. Nobody is going to need to plug in a toaster or a drill, while seating on this bench. Putting a receptacle is not a bad idea, and not a code violation. But I say it is not a code requirement.

    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    13,270
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    I think not. It does not say "similar space." It says "similar work surfaces." We are dealing with a seating area, not a work surface. Nobody is going to need to plug in a toaster or a drill, while seating on this bench. Putting a receptacle is not a bad idea, and not a code violation. But I say it is not a code requirement.

    Yep.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    13,270
    Uh, I just noticed. What is that box in the wall above cabinet?
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    Uh, I just noticed. What is that box in the wall above cabinet?
    A generator transfer switch.

    Also to respond to some remarks.... yes there are receptacles to the left and right within 6' of the ends of the cabinet.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for all the replies... Am I correct then when I say that most of you believe there's no requirement for a receptacle within the cabinet space as long as there's receptacles within 6' to the left and right of it.
    Thanks again...

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    24,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinzgauer View Post
    Thanks for all the replies... Am I correct then when I say that most of you believe there's no requirement for a receptacle within the cabinet space as long as there's receptacles within 6' to the left and right of it.
    Thanks again...
    Yes.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    13,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinzgauer View Post
    A generator transfer switch.

    Also to respond to some remarks.... yes there are receptacles to the left and right within 6' of the ends of the cabinet.
    Okay, in that case you were correct about the cabinet receptacle placement and have the needed receptacles for the wall space; however, you have just failed on working space for that cabinet.

    IMO, a generator transfer switch would apply to the following:

    110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment. Access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.

    (A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operat- ing at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •