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Thread: Gas range

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    22,242
    Okay, guys, here's the solution: cut and abandon the #10 EGC and use the three #8s. Color one white and one green at both ends. Sue me for improper factory coloring.

    I agree that the logic of asserting that this use is not a case of up-sizing, but one of down-using, also is sound. An inspector should have the authority to accept it this way.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Okay, guys, here's the solution: cut and abandon the #10 EGC and use the three #8s. Color one white and one green at both ends. Sue me for improper factory coloring.

    I agree that the logic of asserting that this use is not a case of up-sizing, but one of down-using, also is sound. An inspector should have the authority to accept it this way.
    That would make too much sense, never fly.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    34,681
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Okay, guys, here's the solution: cut and abandon the #10 EGC and use the three #8s. Color one white and one green at both ends. Sue me for improper factory coloring.

    I agree that the logic of asserting that this use is not a case of up-sizing, but one of down-using, also is sound. An inspector should have the authority to accept it this way.
    I say unless it is a really long circuit the #10 EGC is probably more then sufficient, NEC just went the simple route when it comes to determining minimum size and we actually need more copper then necessary in many cases.

    As I mentioned earlier, I see it a lot with irrigation applications where we have really long circuit runs and even have same size EGC as ungrounded conductors - they often blow up a component before it will blow a fuse when you have such a long run, conductor resistance is too current limiting to take out the fuse fast enough. And of course everybody installs RK5 fuses because that is popular and cost least even though something else may be more appropriate.

    1/4 mile center pivot - you very well have ~1400 feet of supply conductor to the center pivot. If only powering the pivot it will only be #4 or maybe #2 aluminum. If you are also supplying an electric well you may get quite a bit larger conductor depending on HP of well. Fuse holders will be 30 amp but the machine may specify anywhere from 15-25 amp fuses as typical. Farmers replace everything with 30's once the originals blow. Now have a fault at the last segment of that 1/4 mile pivot and you have an additional circuit length of ~1300', usually 10 AWG is what these systems use for the main power circuit that runs entire length of system. A lot of line to develop current limiting resistance and make that fault last a long time. Where in many industrial plants similar fault condition has less resistance between fault and the source and fault current is high enough you get much faster response time out of overcurrent protection devices.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Springfield, MA, USA
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    3,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I see.... I wonder how many home owner's have used them with the 40 amp breaker still intact
    According to the description of the device, it has a built in non-replaceable fuse, suggesting that the original breaker can stay in place.

    Similar adapters are available without a fuse, in which case the 40A (or 50A) breaker would IMHO be a significant problem:
    https://www.amazon.com/AC-WORKS-AD14.../dp/B077MTF8QF

    I wonder if installing something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Bussman-BP-SR.../dp/B00004WA3I would also be an option.

    This particular thread is quite timely for me. We have an electric range being replaced with gas in a couple of weeks. Leaving the existing range circuit unmodified is quite an attractive option.

    -Jon

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
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    2,536
    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    I agree Fletch but if the inspector wants to red tag, nothing to be done but do the new circuit route. Yes, strict interpretation but the rule is pretty cut and dried.
    It is things like this that illustrate the problem with prescriptive codes VS performance based codes. On the other hand, performance based codes require a higher level of skill to practice. Prescriptive codes attempt to cover all scenarios but it does not work in all cases as shown in this example. This is where an inspector should apply some sound judgment and experience but sadly this does not seem to usually be the case today.

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