Legal splice ?

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mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Is this compliant for extending existing wiring to breaker & grounded conductor terminations within a panelboard?
 

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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I don't see anything wrong with the idea of using barrier blocks as splice points, or splicing inside a panel board.

I am not overjoyed with the way they are terminated though. I would prefer to see the end of the wire in a hook shape under the screw head.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Looks like it is within a cabinet as covered by article 312 and specifically section 312.8.

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the listing of that terminal strip does not require the conductors to wrap the screws.
 

victor.cherkashi

Senior Member
Location
NYC, NY
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Looks like it is within a cabinet as covered by article 312 and specifically section 312.8.

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the listing of that terminal strip does not require the conductors to wrap the screws.

they are probably not listed, only recognized.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Seems an extension of a single conductor to its termination(buss bar, breaker, lug) would be considered a splice -- If that is true them the ends should be covered equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device. NEC is unclear on the definitions of splice & termination.
Can you terminate in a barrel lug and not be required to insulate?
 

victor.cherkashi

Senior Member
Location
NYC, NY
Seems an extension of a single conductor to its termination(buss bar, breaker, lug) would be considered a splice -- If that is true them the ends should be covered equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device. NEC is unclear on the definitions of splice & termination.
Can you terminate in a barrel lug and not be required to insulate?
If the terminals block listed for used size I think you don't need barrel lug at end up to 10 awg

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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Seems an extension of a single conductor to its termination(buss bar, breaker, lug) would be considered a splice -- If that is true them the ends should be covered equivalent to that of the conductors or with an identified insulating device. NEC is unclear on the definitions of splice & termination.
Can you terminate in a barrel lug and not be required to insulate?
In my opinion that is two terminations and not a splice.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Seems an extension of a single conductor to its termination(buss bar, breaker, lug) would be considered a splice --

Those are terminations, not splices. 110.14(A) not 110.14(B)

Each conductor terminates on each screw.

Or would you say the screws on a receptacle are splices and require insulating?
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Those are terminations, not splices. 110.14(A) not 110.14(B)

Each conductor terminates on each screw.

Or would you say the screws on a receptacle are splices and require insulating?

What's the difference between a termination and a splice? Are there any cases where it matters?

The way that I see it, is that any time a conductor ends its factory continuity, that is a termination. And a splice is a special case of a termination, where a new conductor emerges.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
What's the difference between a termination and a splice? Are there any cases where it matters?

The way that I see it, is that any time a conductor ends its factory continuity, that is a termination. And a splice is a special case of a termination, where a new conductor emerges.

I think if there is a flying lead on a device, that is a termination point and not a splice. A splice connects two wires together.

I am also inclined to agree with the suggestion that the terminal blocks used this way are terminations and not splices, although I don't see a whole lot of practical difference, other than the insulating requirements for a splice.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I don't know of any terminal blocks that are listed. Most power distribution blocks seem to be recognized as terminals as well.
So we really can't use them in the field? As I understand it, a recognized component can only be used as a part of a complete listed product. The following is from a UL document.
Because components are only intended for installation in end products whose safety is evaluated by UL separately, they may be incomplete in construction or restricted in performance capabilities. This factor precludes their safe installation by electricians or contractors in the field.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I don't know of any terminal blocks that are listed. Most power distribution blocks seem to be recognized as terminals as well.
Just looking at terminal blocks on Automation Direct site they offer both recognized and listed ones.

Just looking at the images seems the listed ones have the terminals set in deeper barriers, some have more separation between poles. Also the covers are mentioned as optional for the recognized ones and the listed ones all say a cover is required. May be more to it but that is a casual observation.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
So we really can't use them in the field? As I understand it, a recognized component can only be used as a part of a complete listed product. The following is from a UL document.

that is what UL says. In reality, the AHJ can allow whatever it wants to. IIRC, at least some wire nuts are neither listed nor recognized. I don't recall the code requires wire connectors be listed. I don't see how an unlisted product can be used but only if it is not recognized.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Just looking at terminal blocks on Automation Direct site they offer both recognized and listed ones.

Just looking at the images seems the listed ones have the terminals set in deeper barriers, some have more separation between poles. Also the covers are mentioned as optional for the recognized ones and the listed ones all say a cover is required. May be more to it but that is a casual observation.

I seem to recall that some power distribution blocks and what look like terminals are listed but they are listed as connectors and not terminals. I never really looked that close.

I looked in UL508a table SA1.1 that lists the components allowed. The only terminals it mentions are those recognized under UL1059. nothing about listed terminals at all.
 
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