Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: Are microdistilleries considered Class 1 Div1 or Div 2

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
    Posts
    6,543
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    I'm surprised it was Div 1 and not Div 2. Div 1 is for when the hazard is always present (like a dip tank). Div 2 is for when it is infrequently present or present only as a result of containment failure (tank or pipe leak).
    my understanding, and it's probably inaccurate, as it was learned
    before the invention of combustion was this:

    CL1 DIV1 is where explosive vapor may be present during manufacturing, as in a refinery.
    CL1 DIV2 is where explosive vapor may be present during dispensing, as in a gas station.

    CL 2 DIV 1&2 are the same, but for flammable liquid only. no vapor present.

    CL 3 is flammable dust. no liquid or vapor.

    how far off am i, bob?
    ~New signature under construction.~
    ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    my understanding, and it's probably inaccurate, as it was learned
    before the invention of combustion was this:

    CL1 DIV1 is where explosive vapor may be present during manufacturing, as in a refinery.
    CL1 DIV2 is where explosive vapor may be present during dispensing, as in a gas station.

    CL 2 DIV 1&2 are the same, but for flammable liquid only. no vapor present.

    CL 3 is flammable dust. no liquid or vapor.

    how far off am i, bob?
    Well, pretty far. See Section 500.5 for the basic descriptions.

    Class I is gases and vapors.
    Class II is dusts
    Class III is fibers and flyings.

    Basically, for Classes I and II (there is a little bit of variation on the themes):

    Division 1 is based on possibility of volatiles existing under normal operation including maintenance operations and/or concurrent failures where an electrical failure will also result in the release of volatiles.
    Division 2 is based on abnormal but not catastrophic failures.

    For Class III there is virtually no difference as can be seen in the installation methods in Article 503.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    Answers based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    my understanding, and it's probably inaccurate, as it was learned
    before the invention of combustion was this:

    CL1 DIV1 is where explosive vapor may be present during manufacturing, as in a refinery.
    CL1 DIV2 is where explosive vapor may be present during dispensing, as in a gas station.

    CL 2 DIV 1&2 are the same, but for flammable liquid only. no vapor present.

    CL 3 is flammable dust. no liquid or vapor.

    how far off am i, bob?
    Found this in Rockwell's paper which is pretty good as far as I can tell:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Class Definition.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	30.0 KB 
ID:	19584

    and

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Division Definition.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	28.7 KB 
ID:	19585

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    Found this in Rockwell's paper which is pretty good as far as I can tell:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Class Definition.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	30.0 KB 
ID:	19584

    and

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Division Definition.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	28.7 KB 
ID:	19585
    Gee, just like I outlined above
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    Answers based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,731
    Quote Originally Posted by rbalex View Post
    Gee, just like I outlined above
    OK, you posted while I was fiddle-fart'n with the PNG's. Sheesh.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    OK, you posted while I was fiddle-fart'n with the PNG's. Sheesh.
    When US manufacturers attempt to explain IEC Zones, they should have someone (like me ) that has classified by both systems "vet" their paper. Division 1 is not the same as IEC Zone 0 and 1 combined. It is the same as NEC Zone 0 and 1 combined because CMP 14, "force fit" it to be.

    IEC Zones are defined in terms of probability not possibility as NEC Divisions and Zones are. IEC Zone 1 is more of a glorified Division 2. See my paper for a more thorough comparison.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    Answers based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Posts
    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by rbalex View Post
    When US manufacturers attempt to explain IEC Zones, they should have someone (like me ) that has classified by both systems "vet" their paper. Division 1 is not the same as IEC Zone 0 and 1 combined. It is the same as NEC Zone 0 and 1 combined because CMP 14, "force fit" it to be.

    IEC Zones are defined in terms of probability not possibility as NEC Divisions and Zones are. IEC Zone 1 is more of a glorified Division 2. See my paper for a more thorough comparison.
    One note to the above. The paper was written just as the ATEX Directive was being published so it is a bit outdated with respect to certifications. Otherwise, it is still pretty accurate.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    Answers based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
    Posts
    6,543
    Quote Originally Posted by rbalex View Post
    Well, pretty far. See Section 500.5 for the basic descriptions.
    thank you. don't know how i got that twisted in memory,
    but i did a fine job of it.

    a mind like a steel trap. everything that goes thru it gets mangled.

    thanks again.
    ~New signature under construction.~
    ~~~~Please excuse the mess.~~~~

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •