Single receptacle for microwave / range hood? Why?

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Code section? It won't qualify as the required receptacles but that doesn't make it not a SABC.
Unless I missed something, I thought we were talking about a range hood/microwave unit. Those are typically in a location that prohibits them to be included with the SABC circuits. A microwave that sits on the countertop would be plugged into a SABC, whether it is a individual circuit or not.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I thought we were talking about a range hood/microwave unit. Those are typically in a location that prohibits them to be included with the SABC circuits.

By definition a duplex receptacle connected to a 20 amp circuit anywhere in a kitchen can qualify as a SABC if it's not a individual branch circuit.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
By definition a duplex receptacle connected to a 20 amp circuit anywhere in a kitchen can qualify as a SABC if it's not a individual branch circuit.
Not necessarily what I have been taught or how I see it. First lets look at 210.52.


Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance, within cabinets or cupboards, or are located more then 5-1/2 feet above the floor are pretty much already considered outside of 210.52 requirements right from the start in 210.52.

Anything in 210.52(A) that exists in a kitchen, dining room , pantry similar areas is included in the SABC's. (except for items I mentioned above)

210.52(B) doesn't give us much other then that items in (A) and (C) are also included in the SABC's.

210.52(C) is the counter tops - anything more then 20" above the counter top is not covered by (C). There is some overlap where some outlets may not be covered by (C) but are may still be covered by (A) or (B) and will still be part of the SABC's but if we go back to first part of 210.52, may not be covered by 210.52 period. Only outlets covered by 210.52 are permitted on SABC's from what I can tell.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
To me the section reads that fixed appliances would be excluded from the sabc so that the unknown/undetermined amount of cord and plug connected appliances arent affected.

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
To me the section reads that fixed appliances would be excluded from the sabc so that the unknown/undetermined amount of cord and plug connected appliances arent affected.

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Fixed appliances are not necessarily exempt from being considered a SABC, location of the outlet however may exempt them. Plus if it is an individual branch circuit you may still need additional outlets to comply with 210.52 receptacle spacing if needed.

Dishwasher or disposer - not a SABC in most typical installations - the receptacle is not normally located in a area covered by 210.52. Same for a microwave hood over a range.

Refrigerators are specifically mentioned and are included in SABC requirements.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
I thought 210.52 exception 2 allowed refrigeration equipment to be supplied from an individual branch circuit 15 amps or greater.

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juz720

Member
Location
Sumter SC
Yes, I agree and because it is a dedicated circuit a single vs duplex receptacle would be highly considered. Prevents any future issues with the appliance going bad(motor, etc). Swap it and be happy. The more cooperative you are the better attitude you'll like to live with especially involving the inspectors. Know what to argue & what not too!!


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juz720

Member
Location
Sumter SC
Yes, indeed listen to wise advice vs fighting(arguing) a dead end conversation! Installing a single receptacle isn't that big of an issue man. Flex your knowledge, point on something more serious then this small easy 2 fix project, lol....


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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I thought 210.52 exception 2 allowed refrigeration equipment to be supplied from an individual branch circuit 15 amps or greater.

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Actually it is 210.52(B)(1) - exception 2, but yes they are. Many agree this is still a SABC just is the only case where a SABC can be other then a 20 amp circuit, and also is still a 1500 VA load in art 220 calculations.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
Well for the record i had just opened the code book to that general area and started reading. Then looked at my tablet and saw the comment.
Purely luck i was even close to topic

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user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
You're failing to see the big picture.

Letting the inspector walk all over you for chump change merely enables the inspector and then you will get walked all over when you're talking real money.

Stop giving in to over-inflated inspectors egos and you won't have the problem when it comes to big money issues.

I get where you coming from, I really do. I never said that we should be walked on by inspectors and I understand that whenever possible we shouldn't feed the beast when it comes to inspectors that are cavalier in their application of code.

On the other hand, imho, we need to be realistic- What that inspector wanted was not that big of a deal. The inspector was mistaken, but c'mon. What he wanted was at least code compliant, wasn't entirely unreasonable, was cost neutral at worst, and would have taken all of two minutes to do-hardly worth a red tag just to prove a point. It should be sop to question inspectors, but if they ultimately won't bend over something this small, I still say let it go.

In many cases by arguing over something trivial like the op posted you may make your job easier by making it clear you won't tolerate their nonsense, but it can also backfire big time. In many ahjs, being argumentative over this kind of stuff will not make your existence as an ec any easier down the road. You run the real chance of being seen as "that guy who does things his way" and this isn't good. Many inspectors take delight in punishing "citers" who always have a reason for why they shouldn't have to do something, no matter how insignificant it is. They do this to put them in their place and they nail them over every real or imagined violation they can. Its rotten and grossly unfair, but it happens all the time, so no, in many ahjs being argumentive over the small potatoes doesn't take care of a problem you may have later on "when it comes to big money issues."

There is no point is making unnecessary enemies out of people that could conceivably be in their appointed positions for 40 years and who you may have to deal with repeatedly until you retire. Remember too that while many inspectors are a huge problem (don't know, won't accept their boundaries and desperately need a code book), there are also many who are down to earth, pretty sharp (many have retired from doing what we do), do an overall excellent job and occasionally slip up (like we all do) when interpreting the NEC. They aren't bullies-their simply trying to do their job to the best of their abilities.

Imo, if we're going to risk getting tagged by one of these guys, we need to make sure its actually worth it, and I don't think that the ops situation qualifies.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
If it cost less to change something than to argue, Id change it. When the cost to change it is expensive, we have approached the customer/contractor with a change order.
We have had buisness owners and bldg owners tell the cheif, you win were moving or that peoperty can sit. It worked , they backed off.

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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
As for 'save your energy for the big battle' attitude
I was going to answer that part of the response but,
if you're going to let an inspector misinterpret a code on things that will cost you a little money to comply with, they will certainly misinterpret another code that WILL cost you big money. So stop empowering and enabling them.
this is a much better answer than the one I was going to come up with. Besides, if it comes down to it, you can just cut the tab on the duplex receptacle so only one works and still be compliant with what he wants
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
Wouldnt bother me if half of it was dead. I was thinking am i a genius, ,,a half blank duplex plate might work for the next energy code.

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