residential lights requirement

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JDB3

Senior Member
Wired a spec. house. I have the devices installed & majority of lights installed. Buyers were there today. The lady does not like overhead lighting, wants to do away with light kits on the fans in the bedrooms. What code article would best describe the NEC requirement for lights (since switch controlled receptacles would be mighty difficult without sheet-rock cutting) ? :D
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Wired a spec. house. I have the devices installed & majority of lights installed. Buyers were there today. The lady does not like overhead lighting, wants to do away with light kits on the fans in the bedrooms. What code article would best describe the NEC requirement for lights (since switch controlled receptacles would be mighty difficult without sheet-rock cutting) ? :D

See article 410.

Can you give any further details?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
If you don't have a Final inspection, let the inspector be the 'bad guy' and explain it to her.
We wear the hat well :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The NEC does not require the lights...it just requires a lighting outlet.
Beat me to it.:thumbsup:

Box with a wall switch controlled set of conductors run to it and a blank cover is still an outlet for this purpose.

Also many rooms (not all) are permitted to have switched receptacles as the required lighting outlets.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
So the fan box with switch controlled light wires in it could also be a lighting outlet even without a light kit on the fan?

210.7 would be violated in that instance because of the absence of a lighting outlet (light kit). The prospective h.o. in the op's post must either decide to keep the kits or go with the switched rec(s) for a lamp to be legal in bedrooms and deal w/ the drywall. Augie47's reference and don_rescucapt19's interpretation are correct.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
So the fan box with switch controlled light wires in it could also be a lighting outlet even without a light kit on the fan?

Of course, the lighting outlet def in art 100 could mean different things to differrent people. Some could argue that the conductors to be blanked off constitute an outlet because they ​could provide a direct connection to a fixture meaning 210.7 wouldn't be violated in this scenario. Others would argue that the fixture itself or the sw'd rec is the outlet.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
210.7 would be violated in that instance because of the absence of a lighting outlet (light kit). The prospective h.o. in the op's post must either decide to keep the kits or go with the switched rec(s) for a lamp to be legal in bedrooms and deal w/ the drywall. Augie47's reference and don_rescucapt19's interpretation are correct.
Since the lighting outlet is the place where current leaves the building wiring to go to utilization equipment, you could argue that in the absence of an actual light the outlet (whether a receptacle or a blanked off box) is only potential and not real.
But if you rewrite the definition to be "a place where current can be taken..." instead of "a place where current is taken..." both of those fall into place.
Now the definition of Lighting Outlet is actually even more specific:
:An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire." Look at that word intended. To me that implies that at the time of the inspection the lampholder or luminaire does not actually have to be there. But is it still an outlet in that case?
And is a cord and plug a direct or an indirect connection to the lampholder? You could argue on this basis that a switched outlet for a floor lamp does not qualify because of the cord. Or you could argue that the cord is part of the lampholder in that case, but the use of an extension cord would make the floor or table lamp non conforming with "Lighting Outlet".
My but this is fun!
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Since the lighting outlet is the place where current leaves the building wiring to go to utilization equipment, you could argue that in the absence of an actual light the outlet (whether a receptacle or a blanked off box) is only potential and not real.
But if you rewrite the definition to be "a place where current can be taken..." instead of "a place where current is taken..." both of those fall into place.
Now the definition of Lighting Outlet is actually even more specific:
:An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire." Look at that word intended. To me that implies that at the time of the inspection the lampholder or luminaire does not actually have to be there. But is it still an outlet in that case?
And is a cord and plug a direct or an indirect connection to the lampholder? You could argue on this basis that a switched outlet for a floor lamp does not qualify because of the cord. Or you could argue that the cord is part of the lampholder in that case, but the use of an extension cord would make the floor or table lamp non conforming with "Lighting Outlet".
My but this is fun!

:lol: I know, I know. But I believe that kwired's
interpretation is correct-the outlet is the conductors that are to be blanked off because they do provide a direct connection to a fixture. But I could also very easily see an inspector nailing you pretty good on this one even if he is shown the code.

So the o.p.'s ho now has 3 options
#1 keep light kits
#2 switched recs for bdrms
#3Ditch kits-go with blank plates

Also a clarification- In the post you quoted I meant to say that augie47's reference to op and don_rescucapt19's interpretation that the nec doesn't require light fixtures was correct- I was not saying that they agreed with 210.71 being violated by your scenario. I worded that one badly-too busy at the time.
 
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user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
#4 Leave the light kits on until the inspector leaves, then swap them out for blank plates.

It's 3 screws and a wire harness.

Another way of looking at this is that if a h.o. doesn't like the overhead lighting, and if they don't care about aesthetics, they can just not put any bulbs in.:p
 

hunterhare

Member
Location
utah, usa
you could probably give one switch outlet without cutting sheetrock. knock out the switch box and the outlet thats within 6ft. use long screw driver to pry out the staples, and use the jumper as pull chain for the 3wire. if you got 2 gang switch (one fan, one light) then you are ready for switch :)
 

sparkyjoe35

New member
I don't think you have any problems. What if someone plugs a portable fan into the SWR. You've done the minimum/ met code.


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