Punching holes in panels voids the UL listing ??

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powerfill

Member
Recently our local authority having jurisdiction has indicated that they will not pass any installation where we have put our own knock out in a panel if it has factory knockouts. In other words any panel that has KO's on the bottom cannot be entered from any side or the top by punching a new hole as they say that it voids the UL listing.

We have been putting KO's in panels, pull boxes, and cans for years and it has never been an issue. Often times it is the only way to do an addition that results in a clean and safe installation.

Can anyone show me if this is a valid point? It seems that this is a ridiculous nitpicking stand from our local inspectors. I could understand if someone were to put a KO in the top of a N3R and then just stick a romex clamp or pipe fitting with just a locknut, but when the right parts are used I can't see where it should be a problem. The NEC is all about safety so why isn't a safe entry into a panel where it makes the cleanest installation OK??
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sounds like a power trip if you ask me.
I'd get some manufacturers on board and write letters to this idiot.
Exactly what it is.

You can get some boxes and cabinets with no KO's at all, maybe ask those making this rule to try to enter those without drilling or punching a hole:)
 

ADub

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Estimator/Project Manager
Wow. I hear there's people out there like this but I've never actually met one yet. Can't wait for when I do


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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
With the earlier mentioned NEMA 3R enclosure - there will not be any KO's in the top or sides (maybe near bottom on sides) and may or may not have KO's in the bottom. Hard to maintain a raintight rating if you have KO's in the top or high on the sides. Doesn't mean you can't put holes in the top and install a hub or other raintight fitting in that hole.
 

donaldelectrician

Senior Member
Hopefully they are just misinterpreting something and when shown there is nothing from the manufacturers or the NEC prohibiting making your own holes in panels they will cease and desist.



I have seen some pretty bad hole punching over ready to punch ho;es in a panel . Maybe in this respect they are thinking .




Don
 

ADub

Senior Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Estimator/Project Manager
I have seen some pretty bad hole punching over ready to punch ho;es in a panel . Maybe in this respect they are thinking .




Don

That is nowhere near being a good reason to disallow hole making. Enclosures with kos serve literally zero purpose to me


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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
That is nowhere near being a good reason to disallow hole making. Enclosures with kos serve literally zero purpose to me


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Some people absolutely hate to use a concentric/eccentric KO if they are not using the largest hole as well.

Then there are some out there that are hard to knock out when you do want them out.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Recently our local authority having jurisdiction has indicated that they will not pass any installation where we have put our own knock out in a panel if it has factory knockouts. In other words any panel that has KO's on the bottom cannot be entered from any side or the top by punching a new hole as they say that it voids the UL listing.

We have been putting KO's in panels, pull boxes, and cans for years and it has never been an issue. Often times it is the only way to do an addition that results in a clean and safe installation.

I can't believe someone this stupid was ever an electrician and certainly should not be an AHJ.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
I agree with flatlander. It's a power trip from some one that knows very little about electrical work.
We've done hundreds punched out. You just have to be aware of your wire bending radius.
 

powerfill

Member
Exactly what it is.

You can get some boxes and cabinets with no KO's at all, maybe ask those making this rule to try to enter those without drilling or punching a hole:)

Yea, well they say that if a panel or box has the knockouts then you cannot put more in. If there are no KO's then you can punch your own holes.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
When meeting people like this, I just deadpan the question, "So do the holes I drill in the wood framing of a SFD to install NM need to be listed?"
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
We as a POCO have had electricians punch holes and install conduit in removable panels of switchgear. I usually whined.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
When meeting people like this, I just deadpan the question, "So do the holes I drill in the wood framing of a SFD to install NM need to be listed?"

Yes they do. You can get listed holes from the Portable Hole division of the Acme Brick Company.
:lol:
ACME Portable Hole by MAGIC CITY
HGG-5189.jpg
Wile E. Coyote often tried to catch the Road Runner with an ACME portable hole. The deck uses the concept of this hole that could be placed anywhere. The spectator chooses a card and the magician draws a hole with a marker on the back of the deck. The magician then peels off the hole, shuffles the cards and throws the hole into the deck. The hole then appears on the card that was chosen. It was created by John Talbot. 10/26/2005 (Price: $14.95; Age: 7 and up)

http://www.toydirectory.com/monthly/article.asp?id=1120
 
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