Windows update.. how long do I wait?

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NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
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EC - retired
My wife brings her school laptop(s) home for the summer. I take the time and do the standard updates that are issued from Windows because it would never get done otherwise. Not even during the school year. She brought two home this summer, the old HP and a new Dell. The Dell is stuck on "Do not remove power or turn off..." or words to that affect, for about 4 hours now. How long do I wait?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I have had let them run overnight a couple of times. One time I ended up shutting off the power the next day and it rebooted fine. The other time it had come back on its own.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think I have had that kind of thing happen before, and always recovered from it. Can't recall ever waiting 8 hours to see if it would finish on it's own though. If an update fails it usually comes back as if it never were installed and you need to try it again. If you were installing an operating system or a service pack, you may have more to be concerned about if it seems to hang up like that.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
That should teach you about installing updates. Conventional wisdom is that unless it is a service pack you you are just asking for trouble. Turn automatic updates off and leave it alone.

-Hal
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
That should teach you about installing updates. Conventional wisdom is that unless it is a service pack you you are just asking for trouble. Turn automatic updates off and leave it alone.

-Hal
And leave yourself open to the next zero-day exploit that comes along. And Windows (and to some extent any useful software) has plenty of those.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
And leave yourself open to the next zero-day exploit that comes along. And Windows (and to some extent any useful software) has plenty of those.
That was what I have noticed over the years on multiple operating systems is that the majority of the updates that automatically occur are security related, the updating of software to newer versions, fixing bugs, service packs or device driver updates usually require you to manually select the update if you want to install it.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Did you try hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del at the same time when it hangs up ? A screen will pop up and that will usually tell you if the program is responding or not. You can choose to end the program at that point or you can continue to hit those 3 keys until it recovers. Otherwise you may have to unplug power and reboot to get you back to normal. The other thing you can do is try to install it in Safe Mode. Also, if you have problems after you update you can use Safe Mode to go back in time to a registry that worked before you did the update.

FWIW, I'm still on Windows XP. I have files and programs on my computer that will probably not work with later versions of Windows. I'm becoming a dinosaur rapidly :lol:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Did you try hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del at the same time when it hangs up ? A screen will pop up and that will usually tell you if the program is responding or not. You can choose to end the program at that point or you can continue to hit those 3 keys until it recovers. Otherwise you may have to unplug power and reboot to get you back to normal. The other thing you can do is try to install it in Safe Mode. Also, if you have problems after you update you can use Safe Mode to go back in time to a registry that worked before you did the update.

FWIW, I'm still on Windows XP. I have files and programs on my computer that will probably not work with later versions of Windows. I'm becoming a dinosaur rapidly :lol:
OP's computer was in a stage where it was in the shut down process, but was finalizing updates when it appeared to hang up. Pressing Ctrl-Alt-Del at that point in time either will not do anything or may even reboot without any further interaction, at this point what ever operating system still functioning may be limited so anything you do has some risk of disrupting whatever the system was working on. Most of the time I think it will be a recoverable error that gets left behind though.

I upgraded from XP to 8.1. I had some older programs that supposedly wouldn't work on 8-8.1, but they work fine. Newer versions are probably more optimal for newer system though. Some of us can't always buy all new software just because you got a new computer. There is not only the cost of software but also time setting it all up. Yes you need to set up old software as well, but backups of many things do often transfer with little issue, converting backups to newer versions is sometimes a little trickier.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Good info. Thanks. Anytime I hit C-A-D a window pops up and indicates whether the program is responding or not. From what I remember it gives you an option as to whether you want to continue shutting down or not. I'll have to take better notes next time it happens.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
The upgrade from 8.1 to 10 was the easiest upgrade I ever did.
OP didn't say it was Windows 10 upgrade. Regular updates are typically easy, other than having to waiting for the system to do them... easier than the Windows 10 upgrade. But I agree, as far as upgrades to a newer OS go.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Good info. Thanks. Anytime I hit C-A-D a window pops up and indicates whether the program is responding or not. From what I remember it gives you an option as to whether you want to continue shutting down or not. I'll have to take better notes next time it happens.
That is what happens when operating system is loaded and in normal running mode, OP had a situation where windows was somewhere in the shutdown process but was supposedly still working on something when it appeared to hang up, who knows what portions of normal operation were still available.
 

b1miller

Member
Location
Washington
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Administrator/SCADA Engineer
Upgrade to Win 10 experience

Upgrade to Win 10 experience

Well let me tell you my experience. Updated to Win 10 from Win 7 about 2 weeks ago. After 2 days, computer froze and went through a boot & reboot cycle without an end. Could not go back to Win 7. Re-installed Win 7 and still had issues.
Finally replaced hard drive and went through a new Win 7 install. Thank God for Mozy backup.

I may wait a few months before I try that again.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
And leave yourself open to the next zero-day exploit that comes along. And Windows (and to some extent any useful software) has plenty of those.
Believe me, that's all hype. I am running XP on several machines for years that have NEVER been updated and never had a problem. Turning off auto updates is not my idea, it's recommended by the IT community who are familiar with the problems those updates can cause. Basically if it ain't broke don't fix it. -Hal
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Believe me, that's all hype. I am running XP on several machines for years that have NEVER been updated and never had a problem. Turning off auto updates is not my idea, it's recommended by the IT community who are familiar with the problems those updates can cause. Basically if it ain't broke don't fix it. -Hal
Some of the risk is dependent on what kind of online activity one actually does. If you go to sites that are primarily there for entertainment purposes I think your general security risks are higher. Those kinds of sites are the ones that are trying to get information about you just so they can tailor what they present to you with something that may be of interest to you.

Even with windows security type updates, it is probably a good idea to update security issues at times with whatever web browser is used, and certainly doesn't hurt to run some third party software that will catch unwanted malicious activity and keep that product up to date with the latest threats.

I don't know which version of Internet Explorer is the last one supported by XP, but I don't believe they are sending out any more updates for that version either. Now if you use some other browser that may not be much of a problem for you.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
IE8 was the last and I still have to have it because some financial sites require it. For everything else I use Mozilla Firefox and, yes, it is always updated as well as Adobe Flash. Most Windows updates are for Windows Security which I don't use at all. Instead I have a third party antivirus. I agree, if you are going to frequent bad neighborhoods your risk is greater but I pretty much stick with boards like this one and manufacturers sites. Pretty safe, no? -Hal
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Most Windows updates are for Windows Security which I don't use at all. Instead I have a third party antivirus.

The Windows security updates are for the core OS. Third party AV's will not help with security holes in the OS. Not installing these updates is irresponsible.

Microsoft Security Essentials is Microsoft's own AV software. It is optional and a number of third party AV's do a better job. Using AV software has nothing to do with keeping the OS security patches up to date.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
IE8 was the last and I still have to have it because some financial sites require it. For everything else I use Mozilla Firefox and, yes, it is always updated as well as Adobe Flash. Most Windows updates are for Windows Security which I don't use at all. Instead I have a third party antivirus. I agree, if you are going to frequent bad neighborhoods your risk is greater but I pretty much stick with boards like this one and manufacturers sites. Pretty safe, no? -Hal
I'd be interested in knowing if you've had any problems with updating Firefox. I recently had to download a newer version and since then each time I click on a link a warning pops up and asks if I trust the site. In some cases it doesn't even give me that option indicating that the security certificate for the site is not valid.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
OP didn't say it was Windows 10 upgrade. Regular updates are typically easy, other than having to waiting for the system to do them... easier than the Windows 10 upgrade. But I agree, as far as upgrades to a newer OS go.

Well the title says windows update-- I consider that an upgrade.
 
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