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Thread: Spray Parks

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Mayetta, Kansas
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    2

    Spray Parks

    Spray Parks are a very big upcoming attraction. They have many features and includes LED lighted nozzles. I just backed out of wiring one, because I could not get the mayor and the construction manager on board with clearances per Art 110.26 We have been arguing over compliance with the NEC. In the first meeting with the mayor, I walked him the potential of stray voltage. This system is manufactured by Rain Deck. It is powered by two 2 hp and one 3 hp electric motors. My line of thinking is electric motors operating and mist water is an avenue for stray voltage. Preventing stray voltage in spray parks is the focus of my attention. Today I spoke with the Planning Director of Overland Park Kansas because their safety committee shut the park down. They had requested additional measures to be taken. The measure they used an additional bonding loop out into the pad. The focus was the LED lighted water nozzles. The LEDs are low voltage. Water flow is controlled by solenoids and an ECM module. After the correction was made and have reopened and open back up this season. We know that compliance with the NEC code will reduce the possibility of stray voltage. As you can see stray voltage can arise in many locations. Anybody any ideas or success stories on this to add to the thread.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
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    Welcome to The Forum.

    I have never wired anything like this however I would check with electricians who have wired places like Water Country USA, which has a huge wave pool, the waves which are generated by several hundred horsepower submersible Motors, places like Epcot Center, which have water features, and so on.

    I would read all of article 680 in the 2017 NEC to see what section or sections are applicable to your installation. if what you were installing is beyond that, I would definitely check with the AHJ to see what they permit. If this is something entirely new, the NEC may have not considered it. You may be an Uncharted Territory. If so better to go overboard with safety features and be safe than sorry.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  3. #3
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    Apr 2009
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    Williamsburg, VA
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    I thought about this some more, and the two examples I listed, Water Country USA and Epcot Center, are probably not good ones, seeing that they were wired 30 plus years ago
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min without traffic from winged horses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hart01 View Post
    Spray Parks are a very big upcoming attraction. They have many features and includes LED lighted nozzles. I just backed out of wiring one, because I could not get the mayor and the construction manager on board with clearances per Art 110.26 We have been arguing over compliance with the NEC. In the first meeting with the mayor, I walked him the potential of stray voltage. This system is manufactured by Rain Deck. It is powered by two 2 hp and one 3 hp electric motors. My line of thinking is electric motors operating and mist water is an avenue for stray voltage. Preventing stray voltage in spray parks is the focus of my attention......
    Electric motors keep all their electrons to themselves, they don't share any with the water in the pump. Stray voltage is a byproduct of our power grid and has nothing to do with the wiring inside the park.
    If you don't think too good, don't think too much.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Great White North
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    401
    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    Electric motors keep all their electrons to themselves, they don't share any with the water in the pump. Stray voltage is a byproduct of our power grid and has nothing to do with the wiring inside the park.

    Respectfully--you are very very wrong on so many levels I do not know where to begin.. (On remote occasions it is the utility but very seldom maybe 95%/5%)

    We have been involved in stray voltage investigations for over 30 years.

    Many dairy farmer"s cows are extremely sensitive to this.Our most recent investigation found lights,motors ,submersible electric waterbowl heaters and incorectly wired circuits (within the barn--not the utility) causing this stray voltage in the dairy barn.
    May the force be with you

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbuster View Post
    Respectfully--you are very very wrong on so many levels I do not know where to begin.. (On remote occasions it is the utility but very seldom maybe 95%/5%)

    We have been involved in stray voltage investigations for over 30 years.

    Many dairy farmer"s cows are extremely sensitive to this.Our most recent investigation found lights,motors ,submersible electric waterbowl heaters and incorectly wired circuits (within the barn--not the utility) causing this stray voltage in the dairy barn.
    Respectfully, I don't work on large dairy farms but I do work on a lot of hay farms, I have no doubt that there are gobs of wiring errors, intentional and unintentional, faulty equipment being kept in service, some down right hazards, and a whole lot of just plain ugly wiring on any farm. I would not call any of the problems that arise from this a stray voltage problem. I would call it a problem with the premises wiring, a ground fault problem, a "Your lucky you made it this long without killing somebody problem", certainly not a stray voltage problem.

    This is what the OP said.

    This system is manufactured by Rain Deck. It is powered by two 2 hp and one 3 hp electric motors. My line of thinking is electric motors operating and mist water is an avenue for stray voltage. Preventing stray voltage in spray parks is the focus of my attention......
    There is no way a pump can cause stray voltage. The voltage in the motor stays in the motor.
    If you don't think too good, don't think too much.

  7. #7
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    Respectfully, I don't work on large dairy farms but I do work on a lot of hay farms, I have no doubt that there are gobs of wiring errors, intentional and unintentional, faulty equipment being kept in service, some down right hazards, and a whole lot of just plain ugly wiring on any farm. I would not call any of the problems that arise from this a stray voltage problem. I would call it a problem with the premises wiring, a ground fault problem, a "Your lucky you made it this long without killing somebody problem", certainly not a stray voltage problem.

    This is what the OP said.



    There is no way a pump can cause stray voltage. The voltage in the motor stays in the motor.
    Respectfully, leakage current from a defective motor winding to the motor case can travel from motor case to pump casing and from there to the pipes and the water contained in them.
    Leakage from a non defective motor is unlikely to be dangerous, but may still be detectable.
    An open frame motor exposed to water spray is more likely to develop leakage than a sealed motor.
    The code for swimming pools justifiably requires pumps to be connected to the equipotential grid.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Mayetta, Kansas
    Posts
    2

    Stray Voltage

    For years I have wired boat docks, swimming pools, and spas. Never once had a stray voltage problem. This was many years ago before all the GFCI and Arc Faults. So I got to thinking what was I doing or considering while wiring these areas. There one thing that keeps sticking in my mind. Anybody ever witch a well. I have. There is science behind it. This science is physics. Moving water will or can create a magnetic field. This implies the IONs in the water are charged with electricity. Now on swimming pools, spas, and spray parks there chlorinator injectors. A Chlorinator injector also monitors the amount of chlorine in the water. Minerals/chemicals are being added to water that may make it more acceptable to a magnetic field and electrical current. Now if there is a slight leak between the pump and the electric motor there is a great possibility of electrifying the water. The thing I have noticed on some of the cities that I have talked to and the manufactures is they are grounding the nozzles that contain the LED lighting and including it into a bounding loop back to the main. They are also driving grounding rods in the rebar area and establishing a ground link.

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