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Thread: So do you want to see how they addressed the Peninsular Issue?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Very true. Still wouldn't be a bad idea to have Breakaway chords on coffee pots, I know my Fry Daddy only has like an 18 inch long cord and it is a breakaway type. 190 degree water or 400 degree oil, either way I don't want to come in contact with either.

    I don't suppose it is possible to submit such proposals as appliances are outside the scope of the NEC?
    Well....there are some cord attributes found in Article 422 but those are for appliances that are permitted to be cord and plug and such, to paraphrase of course.

    In your case it would be better directed to the UL Standard for the actual appliance standard since you are referring to coffee pots and fry daddy type appliances which you are correct in thinking the NEC doesn't govern.
    *All code responses are based on the 2017 National Electrical Code®[NEC®]

  2. #22
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    I heard this 3ft peninsula/island rule change was brought forward to address "loft" style dwellings where most kitchen counter surfaces are not attached to a wall. Seems like something needs to be done to address such designs...but a rule that is one size fits all is going to cause lots of problems.

    How about a new rule just for those "loft" style kitchen designs with no wall space.

  3. #23
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    I really don't see what the problem is. Just require that receptacles be installed in the countertop. If there isn't anything already, somebody needs to manufacture a tombstone type housing suitable for that use- maybe a pop-up? And too bad if it offends some decorator's senses.

    And if there isn't anything suitable- just because nobody makes anything like that never stopped the NEC from requiring it before.

    -Hal

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    I really don't see what the problem is. Just require that receptacles be installed in the countertop. If there isn't anything already, somebody needs to manufacture a tombstone type housing suitable for that use- maybe a pop-up? And too bad if it offends some decorator's senses.

    And if there isn't anything suitable- just because nobody makes anything like that never stopped the NEC from requiring it before.

    -Hal
    IN the countertop is a terrible idea in a food prep area / kitchen. Food will get trapped in the receptacle, and cleaning around it will always be a pain. I wonder if there's a market for retractable ceiling mounted cords?


    SceneryDriver

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    I really don't see what the problem is. Just require that receptacles be installed in the countertop. If there isn't anything already, somebody needs to manufacture a tombstone type housing suitable for that use- maybe a pop-up? And too bad if it offends some decorator's senses.

    And if there isn't anything suitable- just because nobody makes anything like that never stopped the NEC from requiring it before.

    -Hal
    Hubbell has a listed countertop pop up receptacle for this application. There are other pop ups that imply that they are listed for the purpose, but they are not actually listed for countertop use. The product testing requires liquid spill testing in both the retracted and extended positions for countertop pop ups.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  6. #26
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    Hubbell makes one but these pop ups are expensive. The nicer ones are $200-300 . The direct wired ones even more..

    The hubbel one is direct wired and IMO it would have to be to comply with art. 210.52

    http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/p...l_WLFTS004.pdf
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  7. #27
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    I prefer these but they are cord and plug. I know someone makes this for direct wire but I believe it was almost $400

    https://www.kitchenpowerpopups.com/p...hoCFq4QAvD_BwE



    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    Hubbell has a listed countertop pop up receptacle for this application. There are other pop ups that imply that they are listed for the purpose, but they are not actually listed for countertop use. The product testing requires liquid spill testing in both the retracted and extended positions for countertop pop ups.
    Where in the code does it state that it must be listed for spill. I assumed it did but how is one to know that it is required.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Hubbell makes one but these pop ups are expensive. The nicer ones are $200-300 . The direct wired ones even more..

    The hubbel one is direct wired and IMO it would have to be to comply with art. 210.52

    http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/p...l_WLFTS004.pdf
    Which part of 210.52?

    Where in the code does it state that it must be listed for spill. I assumed it did but how is one to know that it is required.
    It doesn't but Hubbell mentions that theirs complies with UL 498 Section 146:

    Built and listed to be water
    resistant to a half gallon of
    liquid spilled on the device


    Maybe after the CMP gets done fighting over the difference between "and" and "or" they can think about a real solution that's already out there.

    -Hal

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    It seems every code cycle they're changing something in a kitchen.... makes me wonder how I didn't starve to death or electrocute myself growing up in a kitchen built in 1953...
    Very well put. Every time they mess around with kitchen countertop outlet locations they get it all screwed up , and my belief is they are old fat guys who haven't messed with tools for a long long time now and don't have any business being on a code panel at all. You CMP'S listening to me? Macmikeman has spoken.
    85deg. an Sunny today.

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