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Thread: Pool deck area heating

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    As I read the code section I say it is not compliant to have the heating cable below the deck even if it is in pvc conduit. I am not sure that is the intent however if the cable should fail and leak to ground- assuming it can just as water can usually get inside the conduit, then there is a potential for an accident.
    Embedded is the key word here.

    Presuming this is a heat cable ran inside the drain piping just to keep it clear so it can drain - something that likely isn't even in use (or doesn't need to be anyway) when weather is suitable to place the pool in service. If one can keep it at least 5 feet from the pool - even less of an issue IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    As I read the code section I say it is not compliant to have the heating cable below the deck even if it is in pvc conduit. I am not sure that is the intent however if the cable should fail and leak to ground- assuming it can just as water can usually get inside the conduit, then there is a potential for an accident.
    I would agree here. The intent is not to have such around a pool deck in any case. These cables are required to be 30ma EPD type breakers not GFCI. I wonder why there is just not a additional requirement for GFCI protection as in other wet areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    As I read the code section I say it is not compliant to have the heating cable below the deck even if it is in pvc conduit. I am not sure that is the intent however if the cable should fail and leak to ground- assuming it can just as water can usually get inside the conduit, then there is a potential for an accident.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    I would agree here. The intent is not to have such around a pool deck in any case. These cables are required to be 30ma EPD type breakers not GFCI. I wonder why there is just not a additional requirement for GFCI protection as in other wet areas.
    Do you guys know how to read? The code reference clearly says embedded in or below the pool deck. A heat tape in a gutter is not embedded. Heat mats get embedded, heat tape does not.
    If you don't think too good, don't think too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    I would agree here. The intent is not to have such around a pool deck in any case. These cables are required to be 30ma EPD type breakers not GFCI. I wonder why there is just not a additional requirement for GFCI protection as in other wet areas.
    Because GFCI is for people protection, and the majority of the risk seems to be associated with cord and plug connected equipment and the reason why the majority of GFCI protection that is required involves receptacle outlets. Used to mostly just be 15/20 amp 125 volt receptacles, but good or bad, 2017 has gone with more then just 120 volt receptacles for the general requirements now, but still mostly only for receptacle outlets.

    Keep in mind the "radiant heating cable" mentioned in the code section quoted is referring to radiant cable in the deck that is intended to be a space heating cable or at least deicing of the deck. What OP is installing is described as de-icing cable and is only de-icing the drainage piping.

    Probably still not a good idea to install if closer then 5 feet from the pool.

    If conditions are calling for it to function is anyone using the pool? Does the pool even have water in it in such conditions? Some do leave water in the pool through the winter anymore - but also have a cover over it making it unusable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    Do you guys know how to read? The code reference clearly says embedded in or below the pool deck. A heat tape in a gutter is not embedded. Heat mats get embedded, heat tape does not.
    Yea we can read. It is a difference in opinion.

    Not all electric radiant heat is done with a mat. There are mats and there are cables that can be embedded in concrete. If the pipe is embedded below the deck and there is a heat cable within , it can be interpreted as being not code compliant. Without the CMP reasoning we won't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    Yea we can read. It is a difference in opinion.

    Not all electric radiant heat is done with a mat. There are mats and there are cables that can be embedded in concrete. If the pipe is embedded below the deck and there is a heat cable within , it can be interpreted as being not code compliant. Without the CMP reasoning we won't know.
    At same time is still interpretation unless code would get changed to clarify.

    If kept 5 feet from the pool I still don't see a problem at all. Less than that is questionable.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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    I'm going to go with the "radiant" part not being met by the heat tape in the pipe. Radiant heating is designed to heat up a surface through conduction, raising the surface temperature, so that heat is then radiated away through the air. If the heat tape is in the pipe, and the intent is just to keep the pipe above freezing, it is not radiant heat.

    Cheers, Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhitney View Post
    I'm going to go with the "radiant" part not being met by the heat tape in the pipe. Radiant heating is designed to heat up a surface through conduction, raising the surface temperature, so that heat is then radiated away through the air. If the heat tape is in the pipe, and the intent is just to keep the pipe above freezing, it is not radiant heat.

    Cheers, Wayne
    Better explanation then my earlier attempt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhitney View Post
    I'm going to go with the "radiant" part not being met by the heat tape in the pipe. Radiant heating is designed to heat up a surface through conduction, raising the surface temperature, so that heat is then radiated away through the air. If the heat tape is in the pipe, and the intent is just to keep the pipe above freezing, it is not radiant heat.

    Cheers, Wayne
    From me too.
    If you don't think too good, don't think too much.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    Yea we can read. It is a difference in opinion.

    Not all electric radiant heat is done with a mat. There are mats and there are cables that can be embedded in concrete. If the pipe is embedded below the deck and there is a heat cable within , it can be interpreted as being not code compliant. Without the CMP reasoning we won't know.
    We don't need to find out anybody's reasoning, we just need use words according to their meanings,

    Definition of embedded. 1 : occurring as a grammatical constituent (such as a verb phrase or clause) within a like constituent. 2 : enclosed closely in or as if in a matrix : set firmly into a mass or material.

    to fix into a surrounding mass: to embed stones in cement

    to enclose closely in or as if in a matrix; to make something an integral part of.

    A piece of heat tape pulled into a piece of PVC is not embedded in the pool deck any more than wires pulled in conduit are embedded underground or in buildings.
    If you don't think too good, don't think too much.

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