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Thread: Water GEC

  1. #1
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    Water GEC

    '17 Code.
    I have a building with a 1200 amp service with (3) 600 kcmil Cu.
    Metal-Structural Frame building but hold down bolts were not boded to UFER
    A #4 Cu was installed to the UFER at time of construction and is connected to the neutral in my service panel.
    The steel is bonded with with a 250 kcmil cu per 250.104
    I have a metallic underground water line on end of the building opposite the service gear.
    250.68 notes building steel can be used to interconnect electrodes but my only electrode is my UFER with the #4 Cu.
    My water line requires a 3/0.
    Since I have the 250 kcmil boding jumper to the steel from the service can I connect my 3/0 from the water to the steel ?
    At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

  2. #2
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    If your stell is an electrode then the jumper to the water pipes is a bonding jumper. If it is not an electrode can you make a irreversible splice and extend the 3/0 from the steel to the water line?
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  3. #3
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    as i read 250.68(C)(2) with my hold down bolts not bonded to the UFER, my steel can only be used to interconnect electrodes as it is not a grounding electrode conductor. My only electrode other than the water is the UFER connected by a #4.
    At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie47 View Post
    as i read 250.68(C)(2) with my hold down bolts not bonded to the UFER, my steel can only be used to interconnect electrodes as it is not a grounding electrode conductor. My only electrode other than the water is the UFER connected by a #4.
    I think you can use the steel as a GEC in your situation. 250.68(C)(2) after the comma in the first sentence says "or as a grounding electrode conductor". Interestingly, if it was a water pipe (C)(1) the pipe would have to be a GE before you could use it for this purpose.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie47 View Post
    as i read 250.68(C)(2) with my hold down bolts not bonded to the UFER, my steel can only be used to interconnect electrodes as it is not a grounding electrode conductor. My only electrode other than the water is the UFER connected by a #4.
    If it's not an electrode you can still use it to interconnect other electrodes.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    If it's not an electrode you can still use it to interconnect other electrodes.
    That's my understanding and I would be doing that (to a degree)/My 3/0 would connect to my water Grounding Electrode. My questions concerns the "other end"
    I could easily connect the #4 from the UFER to the steel and I would have two electrodes bonded together by the steel which is allowed bt 250.68(C)(2) even if the steel does not qualify as grounding electrode conductor. My question comes from how then to connect to my service neutral. Presently my #4 UFER connects to the neutral but that connection is way undersized to be the link to the water electrode. With my 250 bond to steel I have a route to water but it seems that would be using the steel as grounding electrode conductor and it does not qualify.
    It's too late to geta 3/0 to the UFER.
    The only door I see open is to drive a ground rod and tie it to the steel with a 3/0 and connected a 3/0 to the ground rod and then let the steel tie the rod and water together.
    That way there would be no "weak link" in the chain and I would only be using the steel to tie the two electrodes together.
    At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

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