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Thread: AFCI thread #4,347,291

  1. #1
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    AFCI thread #4,347,291

    Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

    At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

    I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade.

  2. #2
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    And the goose that laid a golden egg for the manufacturers.

    -Hal

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter d View Post
    Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

    At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

    I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade.
    I agree. There maybe is good intent and even good ideas when it comes to preventing fires that these supposedly protect us from. The way it all came about still left the EC in the hardest position - required to install something that doesn't always work and most likely making them eat some cost in the process of resolving problems with them.

    Sure you get a few guys that tell how Square D sent them some replacements - but still no reimbursement for all their work in solving the problem that they are not even responsible for.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    And the goose that laid a golden egg for the manufacturers.

    -Hal
    At $50 a pop for a dual function breaker, no less.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I agree. There maybe is good intent and even good ideas when it comes to preventing fires that these supposedly protect us from. The way it all came about still left the EC in the hardest position - required to install something that doesn't always work and most likely making them eat some cost in the process of resolving problems with them.

    Sure you get a few guys that tell how Square D sent them some replacements - but still no reimbursement for all their work in solving the problem that they are not even responsible for.
    It's outrageous that these things have been around for 15+ years and they are still a very imperfect technology that even the manufacturers will indirectly admit they have constantly updated and tinkered with.

    These breakers I pulled will be sent back to the distributor but we still lost 1.5 hours of troubleshooting and travel time.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter d View Post
    Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

    At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

    I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade.
    Not again - we already had 15 pages on that before the thread was closed.
    Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

  7. #7
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    And who does the manufacturer think will pay for this. Us code compliant sparkies who else.
    What should happen is that mfg should set up a fund we can draw from if they want to continue this nuisance device.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
    Not again - we already had 15 pages on that before the thread was closed.
    I'm aware of that, but the problems with AFCI's persist to this very day.. We are 15+ years into this disaster with no sign of relief. This is absolutely criminal in my opinion.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter d View Post
    I'm aware of that, but the problems with AFCI's persist to this very day.. We are 15+ years into this disaster with no sign of relief. This is absolutely criminal in my opinion.
    Opinion noted and that's fine.
    My point is that all of that has been previously aired, disputed acrimoniously, the thread closed, and a user banned.
    Done and dusted. Dead in the water. Why resurrect it?
    Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
    Opinion noted and that's fine.
    My point is that all of that has been previously aired, disputed acrimoniously, the thread closed, and a user banned.
    Done and dusted. Dead in the water. Why resurrect it?
    Because contractors are still dealing with headaches from unknown tripping from these devices, and still losing money as a result.

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