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Thread: No Main Breaker

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Chico, CA, USA
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    No Main Breaker

    Howdy,

    I came across this residence with an older panel with no main.

    I can't tell what size panel it is? 125A or 200A. I have an SMA 7.0 that requires a 40A OCPD.


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  2. #2
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJRobinson View Post
    Howdy,

    I came across this residence with an older panel with no main.

    I can't tell what size panel it is? 125A or 200A. I have an SMA 7.0 that requires a 40A OCPD.


    Name:  AG.jpg
Views: 225
Size:  43.5 KB
    Assuming that it's fed by service conductors, since it's an MLO panel the 120% rule does not apply unless you install a main breaker. Anything you land in that panel as it is would be a supply side interconnection. It's a bit scary/ugly/old, though.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    I believe there is an issue with the "six throws of the hand" rule. Well, well, whatever will you do about that?
    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    right now it only has five handles - so you can add one more - presuming it is suitable for use as service equipment without a single main breaker. many "loadcenters" require the main breaker before they are suitable for use as service equipment - see instructions - if they are still readable.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    Assuming that it's fed by service conductors, since it's an MLO panel the 120% rule does not apply unless you install a main breaker. Anything you land in that panel as it is would be a supply side interconnection. It's a bit scary/ugly/old, though.
    Nice...and "Hot". ⚡⚡⚡

    Thanks,

    Michael

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    right now it only has five handles - so you can add one more - presuming it is suitable for use as service equipment without a single main breaker. many "loadcenters" require the main breaker before they are suitable for use as service equipment - see instructions - if they are still readable.
    Even if there were six handles already a PV breaker does not count as a seventh. Mr. Holt has video on the subject and I used it to convince my local AHJ of this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    Even if there were six handles already a PV breaker does not count as a seventh. Mr. Holt has video on the subject and I used it to convince my local AHJ of this.
    Well then if he adds PV he still has ability to add one more later
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    That panel may have had a label that says no more than six handles, in which case Mike's argument wouldn't sway. It's more debatable when the situation is disconnects tapping off a gutter.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggedben View Post
    That panel may have had a label that says no more than six handles, in which case Mike's argument wouldn't sway. It's more debatable when the situation is disconnects tapping off a gutter.
    With "loadcenters" and at least more recent (past 25 years) models, I find it more common to see label stating it is only suitable for use as service equipment when supplied via a main breaker or something to that effect.

    Seen the suitable for use as service equipment when no more then six devices are installed wording more often on things like I line panels more so then on "load centers".
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    For what it's worth, my experience differs, I see the 'not more than six handles' wording on lots of 'loadcenter' labels, at least if they are 12 spaces or less.

    The point is, it's a pretty sure bet that the panel in the OP's picture either had the six-handle limit labeled (when the label was all still there), or it has been improperly installed or modified.

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