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Thread: Existing Main - No Mfr Sticker

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillK-AZ View Post
    I am dealing with a similar problem. Approximately 1995 C-H center fed main all-in-one panel without any label except a UL sticker that according to C-H (now Eaton) technical support does not trace to a specific model. AHJ says that it may have two 100A busses and we need to show that it has 200A busses. Emailed photos to Eaton 4 days ago, no response yet. Oldest catalog I have is 2010 and it does not have similar panels.

    I measured the buss bar and it is 9/16" x 3/16". A table on the Copper Development Association website (copper.org) indicates that 1/2" x 3/16" is rated for 195A at 30°C temperature rise, so 9/16" x 3/16" buss bar should be 219A.

    If I do not get a response by Eaton in a few days, I will try to get the AHJ to accept that this panel has 200A buss bars.

    Anyone been able to have the AHJ accept simple measurements and a standard table for establishing ampacity?
    How about a picture?

  2. #12
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    There is a lot of variability on this with AHJs but the inspector is well within their job description to call out any problems they see during an inspection. If they see damaged or non-functional equipment, equipment that has been modified or degraded, equipment that would not meet the code requirements in effect when it was installed, or any unpermitted work they can call it out and write it up. So if the labels are gone or painted over and that would have prevented the panelboard from meeting code when first installed they can require replacement. So while it causes more work when this happens I can't fault the inspector for wanting to do their job. Keep in mind their job is safety and equipment is only seen when first installed and when any additional work is done, and that could be 20 or 30 years later.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillK-AZ View Post
    Anyone been able to have the AHJ accept simple measurements and a standard table for establishing ampacity?
    Bussing in equipment like breaker panels is done by heat rise testing through the NRTL. instead of using dimensions.
    The buss bar table is for conductors in free air not ones crammed in behind beakers, field wiring, and bus connection fingers.
    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    How about a picture?
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillK-AZ View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice but you are not solar bill!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillK-AZ View Post
    I am dealing with a similar problem. Approximately 1995 C-H center fed main all-in-one panel without any label except a UL sticker that according to C-H (now Eaton) technical support does not trace to a specific model. AHJ says that it may have two 100A busses and we need to show that it has 200A busses. Emailed photos to Eaton 4 days ago, no response yet. Oldest catalog I have is 2010 and it does not have similar panels.

    I measured the buss bar and it is 9/16" x 3/16". A table on the Copper Development Association website (copper.org) indicates that 1/2" x 3/16" is rated for 195A at 30°C temperature rise, so 9/16" x 3/16" buss bar should be 219A.

    If I do not get a response by Eaton in a few days, I will try to get the AHJ to accept that this panel has 200A buss bars.

    Anyone been able to have the AHJ accept simple measurements and a standard table for establishing ampacity?
    The problem is that the bus rating is not just based on the physical size of the bus. The bus rating is also limited based on the thermal effects in the panel. That is all covered by the standard.

  7. #17
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    Jul 2009
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    Friends with contacts at Eaton finally got an answer.
    This is a 200 amp style device CG32M2S24 manufactured in Lincoln, IL during 1994 based on the date code label F450=
    The original UL File E8741 Vol. 4 description of what you have is shown below.
    The main breaker installed was a CH2200X, mounted onto a panel that included our 200 amp bus construction.
    The below shows this to be a 200 Amp, 120/240 volt, 32 circuit.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggedben View Post
    The AHJ is being a jerk. Of course it's a 100A panel if it has a 100A main. Have you ever seen a 12/24 panelboard that was rated less than 100A? I've done what you did a few times without problems.
    I also agree with that, and would even go as far as saying most probably are even 125 amp rated bus, just that one with a factory installed 100 amp main may only be labeled as 100 amp
    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    I Agree. Even those small 6/12 homeline or QO panels are 100 Amp. I dont think you will find anything less than 100 until you get down to some of those little 2-3 space circuit breaker enclosures. And especially if it has a 100 amp breaker factory installed. If its a MLO with a backfed 100, and the inspector isnt real familiar with panelboards/loadcenters then maybe I would understand.
    Can't say for certain on the Homeline - the QO I know is 100 amp bus - but has max individual branch circuit rating of 70 amps.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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