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Thread: 2020 NEC AFCI

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Stolz View Post
    I'm sure we are just squeamish about AFCIs because we don't understand how they work. What I could really use is an unverified instance where they caught a problem that maybe could have started a fire in a real world scenario, and then I will embrace them. After all, a two-thirds vote of educated people listening to a sales pitch thought it was a good idea, so how could it be wrong?
    That is part of the problem. If it has potential to save lives it has to be a good thing. As code making members you are (sort of) supposed to be blind to the cost (whether monetary or otherwise) of safety.

    If you are an AFCI manufacturer - that is a big plus. They started out just requiring them in bedrooms - ease your way into this, and let the consumer be the test lab so you can fix some of the bugs before you push them to go into more places. Some of those "bugs" were actually poor wiring practices and us installers have learned about that aspect - which did make us better installers, but requiring more GFCI protection would have also caught many of those issues.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2003
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    Ok I am ahead of this one! I just finished a total rewire of my 950 sq ft house, I put AFCI in for the bathroom...
    Moderator-Washington State
    Ancora Imparo

  3. #23
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    Apr 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom baker View Post
    Ok I am ahead of this one! I just finished a total rewire of my 950 sq ft house, I put AFCI in for the bathroom...
    I guess your bathroom won't burn down, then.
    Ron

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    That is part of the problem. If it has potential to save lives it has to be a good thing. As code making members you are (sort of) supposed to be blind to the cost (whether monetary or otherwise) of safety.

    If you are an AFCI manufacturer - that is a big plus. They started out just requiring them in bedrooms - ease your way into this, and let the consumer be the test lab so you can fix some of the bugs before you push them to go into more places. Some of those "bugs" were actually poor wiring practices and us installers have learned about that aspect - which did make us better installers, but requiring more GFCI protection would have also caught many of those issues.
    Yeah I am curious how many of you would be opposed to at minimum class B GFCI's being required in all the places AFCI's are?
    Like say the code was amended to allow a 30 miliamp GFCI protection as a substitution for AFCI.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tortuga View Post
    Yeah I am curious how many of you would be opposed to at minimum class B GFCI's being required in all the places AFCI's are?
    Like say the code was amended to allow a 30 miliamp GFCI protection as a substitution for AFCI.
    Not convinced it would prevent fires, though not convinced AFCI will prevent as many fires as they claim it will either. Still would detect most of the same wiring issues as AFCI's though.

    OTOH a little hard to start a fire if it trips on any little abnormality it sees and is seldom ever "on".
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Not convinced it would prevent fires, though not convinced AFCI will prevent as many fires as they claim it will either. Still would detect most of the same wiring issues as AFCI's though.

    ...
    I would expect the 30 mA trip GFP would prevent more fires than would the newer AFCIs that do not have a GFP function would.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  7. #27
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    Illinois
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    It is my understanding that the PI requirement to expand the AFCI rules did not pass "ballot" and will be reported as reject when the First Draft Report is made available in early July.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    If plumbers were smart, they would lobby for sprinklers in residences over afci breakers. ...
    The two model residential building codes require one and two family dwelling units to have fire sprinkler systems. This requirement has been removed by most of the units of government that have adopted one of those model building codes. There are a number of areas that do require them. In Illinois, just over 100 municipalities require fire sprinkler systems for dwelling units. My small town is not one of them, but we have amended the NEC to say that if you install a code compliant fire sprinkler system that you are not required to install AFCIs.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I would expect the 30 mA trip GFP would prevent more fires than would the newer AFCIs that do not have a GFP function would.
    To have GF leakage you have to have something grounded to leak to. So yes some instances it may trip once a fault develops. Pinched zip cord on wood/carpeted floor - nothing to fault to that is conductive enough to carry any significant enough GF current. We don't necessarily know how well (combination) AFCI's respond to this though they claim they will.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    1,307
    I have no problems with GFCI's being required for everything, they work & are fairly cheap, still think AFCI's are snake oil.

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