3 pole contactor inside hand hole

Status
Not open for further replies.

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
The other day I was troubleshooting some pole lights, found this inside, this is tied into a lighting control panel to turn the lights on in case of an emergency. Not sure if this is allowed, I was unable to find anything other than clearance issues. This is a 480v single phase pole light, 3 pole contactor with 277v coil. Switch is 3 pole manual motor starter that operates lights until 11pm, during an emergency relay in LCP sends 277v to coil on contactor. There are other obvious issues here, just want to know if mounting contactor inside hand hole is allowed.
 

Attachments

  • Bldg 27279 Light pole contactor.jpg
    Bldg 27279 Light pole contactor.jpg
    146.3 KB · Views: 0
  • Pole light 27279 #3.JPG
    Pole light 27279 #3.JPG
    142.4 KB · Views: 0

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
A hand hole in a pole, looks fine. A hand hole in the ground, not so much.

PS: They sure left plenty of wire, fortunately the pole is large. :)
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
A hand hole in a pole, looks fine. A hand hole in the ground, not so much.

PS: They sure left plenty of wire, fortunately the pole is large. :)

Did you notice the green wire taped gray, that is tied to the #4 solid grounding electrode conductor attached to the driven electrode at the pole base, the other end is attached to 277v coil.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
The other day I was troubleshooting some pole lights, found this inside, this is tied into a lighting control panel to turn the lights on in case of an emergency. Not sure if this is allowed, I was unable to find anything other than clearance issues. This is a 480v single phase pole light, 3 pole contactor with 277v coil. Switch is 3 pole manual motor starter that operates lights until 11pm, during an emergency relay in LCP sends 277v to coil on contactor. There are other obvious issues here, just want to know if mounting contactor inside hand hole is allowed.

Explain how the 3p motor rated switch operatest the lights until 11 pm. ???


JAP>
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Explain how the 3p motor rated switch operatest the lights until 11 pm. ???


JAP>

Relay in LCP energized until 11pm allowing switch to be used to control lights, after 11pm relay drops out no power to switch, during an emergency, say fire alarm, relay will energize, what if the switch is in the off position you ask, well, that's where the contactor comes in, another relay sends 277v to the coil on the contactor thus turning on the lights. This is not the way it was designed, there was no 277v going out to the pole lights according to the prints, just single phase 480 with ground, they(the electrical contractor) sacrificed the equipment ground for the 277v from LCP to the contactor and used the driven electrode at the pole base for the neutral. Drawings show LV switch at pole controlling pole lights via LCP.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Relay in LCP energized until 11pm allowing switch to be used to control lights, after 11pm relay drops out no power to switch, during an emergency, say fire alarm, relay will energize, what if the switch is in the off position you ask, well, that's where the contactor comes in, another relay sends 277v to the coil on the contactor thus turning on the lights. This is not the way it was designed, there was no 277v going out to the pole lights according to the prints, just single phase 480 with ground, they(the electrical contractor) sacrificed the equipment ground for the 277v from LCP to the contactor and used the driven electrode at the pole base for the neutral. Drawings show LV switch at pole controlling pole lights via LCP.

Still dont make sense.
I'm taking it that the 480v circuit going to the pole light from the LCP is being broken through the switch itself.(the switch is not controlling a contactor inside the builiding).

In that case,they would have to have a constant 480v circuit to the line side of the contactor in the pole and a switched 480v circuit from the load side of the relay in the LCP in the building to the line side of the switch at the pole then from the load side of the switch directly to the fixtures.

Regardless,
Theres no way the driven electrode at the pole base could serve as the neutral for the coil on the contactor if that's in fact the only thing that it's hooked to.


JAP>
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Never mind about the constant 480v to the pole light I was talking about,
I see where you said in an emergency the relay in the LCP inside, sends the 480 back out to the pole which would feed the line side of the contactor in the pole.

Still yet, the driven ground rod cannot create a neutral for the contactor's coil unless there's something else I'm not seeing ??


JAP>
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The driven ground rod could have a low enough resistance to carry current for a contactor coil. There will be a voltage drop between coil and remote earth, but not enough to keep the contactor from pulling in. Still a total code violation though.
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Still dont make sense.
I'm taking it that the 480v circuit going to the pole light from the LCP is being broken through the switch itself.(the switch is not controlling a contactor inside the builiding).

In that case,they would have to have a constant 480v circuit to the line side of the contactor in the pole and a switched 480v circuit from the load side of the relay in the LCP in the building to the line side of the switch at the pole then from the load side of the switch directly to the fixtures.

Regardless,
Theres no way the driven electrode at the pole base could serve as the neutral for the coil on the contactor if that's in fact the only thing that it's hooked to.


JAP>

The switch and the contactor at the pole is fed 480v from LCP via relay, during an emergency the relay will energize along with a relay sending 277v to the coil on the contactor. Picture shows contactor in side hand hole, title of this thread "3 pole contactor inside hand hole"
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
The driven ground rod could have a low enough resistance to carry current for a contactor coil. There will be a voltage drop between coil and remote earth, but not enough to keep the contactor from pulling in. Still a total code violation though.

Doubtful.

More than likely its picking up a return path through one of the EGC's somehow.
JAP>
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Doubtful.

More than likely its picking up a return path through one of the EGC's somehow.
JAP>

Driven electrode at pole base has #4 solid connected to it, the neutral from the 277v coil is connected to that. The green wire taped gray connected by blue wire nut to #4 solid, the gray #12 is connected to coil. New building, not sure if this even worked, found breaker for 480v tripped, in process of sorting all this out.
 

Attachments

  • Pole Light 27279 #4.JPG
    Pole Light 27279 #4.JPG
    133.3 KB · Views: 0

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Driven electrode at pole base has #4 solid connected to it, the neutral from the 277v coil is connected to that. The green wire taped gray connected by blue wire nut to #4 solid, the gray #12 is connected to coil. New building, not sure if this even worked, found breaker for 480v tripped, in process of sorting all this out.

Be Careful.

Looks like an ideal place to get your you know what knocked off.....:)

JAP>
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I'm anxious to see what you found out after you got it all sorted out..... if it actually ever worked or not.


Let us know.

Thanks,

JAP>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top