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Thread: GFI won't trip

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    All 3 prong receptacles that are GFI protected but only have two wire circuits should have stickers on them that read "GFI Protected / No Equipment Ground". I would guess that part of the reason for this is because when you put a plug tester in such a receptacle, it will not trip the tester... The only way to test those receptacles properly is to trip the Upstream GFI and verify power is dead.

    GFI receptacles and Breakers work perfectly well with two wire systems, the ground wire is irrelevant for their operation
    The reason for the stickers is to give code making panel and inspectors a warm fuzzy feeling. Typical user has no clue what they mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by dale46 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I didn't realize those GFI testers test between hot and ground.I thought they tested between hot and neutral mimicking how the device actually works.
    Any current between the "hot" and "neutral" of the receptacle or "load terminals" is seen as normal expected load. Any current that leaks outside that path is abnormal, and once it exceeds 4-6 mA trips the device. The test button sends test current outside the protected path, one side of "line" conductors to opposite side of "load" conductors". This path is outside of the current transformer that monitors the intended current path.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    The only way to test those receptacles properly is to trip the Upstream GFI and verify power is dead.
    Well, there is another way. I use my solenoid tester to check for GFCI protection by plugging one probe in the receptacle's hot slot and grounding the other probe. Anything from an extension cord to a nearby sink's faucet (presuming metal piping) to any nearby grounded surface will work.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Well, there is another way. I use my solenoid tester to check for GFCI protection by plugging one probe in the receptacle's hot slot and grounding the other probe. Anything from an extension cord to a nearby sink's faucet (presuming metal piping) to any nearby grounded surface will work.
    Digital meter with a low impedance setting works also. Or any load you can imagine over 6 mA connected to a point inside and a point outside the GFCI protected circuit will trip it.

    This includes getting the "hot" from elsewhere and the "neutral" via the GFCI protected circuit.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    The reason for the stickers is to give code making panel and inspectors a warm fuzzy feeling. Typical user has no clue what they mean.
    ...
    I think the real reason for those stickers is 250.114....something no user has any clue about, and most inspectors don't either. They added Informational Note #2 following 406.4(D)(2) in the 2017 code to call attention to the requirements in 250.114.
    Don, Illinois
    Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity. Dr. Rick Rigsby
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I think the real reason for those stickers is 250.114....something no user has any clue about, and most inspectors don't either. They added Informational Note #2 following 406.4(D)(2) in the 2017 code to call attention to the requirements in 250.114.
    So much for the notion that the NEC 'ends at the receptacle'.
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I think the real reason for those stickers is 250.114....something no user has any clue about, and most inspectors don't either. They added Informational Note #2 following 406.4(D)(2) in the 2017 code to call attention to the requirements in 250.114.
    I'll stand by what I previously said. Electricians will see that sticker and realize there isn't an EGC, they might even say to themselves 'someone must know the codes'. Most users won't know or care what that sticker means. Inspectors will be happy because code was followed though it didn't really matter one bit on this one.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I'll stand by what I previously said. Electricians will see that sticker and realize there isn't an EGC, they might even say to themselves 'someone must know the codes'. Most users won't know or care what that sticker means. Inspectors will be happy because code was followed though it didn't really matter one bit on this one.
    I had a home inspector write up the GFCI receptacle in the kitchen did not trip with his tester, even though it was marked with those stickers, and the GFCI not only work, it was one of the new self-testing ones as well.

    Other people's children....lol
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    I had a home inspector write up the GFCI receptacle in the kitchen did not trip with his tester, even though it was marked with those stickers, and the GFCI not only work, it was one of the new self-testing ones as well.

    Other people's children....lol
    Don't confuse the "self testing" feature with the procedure of pressing the test button, they are not the same thing. Pressing that test button actually creates a real unbalance current condition and the device should mechanically open the circuit.

    The self test feature is constantly monitoring the electronics of the device for whatever malfunctions it was designed to detect (find it hard to believe it can detect and act upon all possibilities but can be designed to work for many foreseeable possibilities) and will lock itself out should it fail self testing. Failure of self testing from what I know usually means the device needs replaced, there is no resetting after such failure.

    Old GFCI's when failed to function, would often continue to allow power to pass through, with no GFCI protection.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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