raised cover on 1900 box

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iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
How could the inspector tun down a 4" sq. with a raised cover? They are made for that purpose. Now as mentioned, if the receptacle is only installed with one screw then that is an issue not the box or the cover

Well as I mentioned. OSHA routinely cites pendent drops made with 4" sq boxes and they will also cite a homemade extension cord with a 4" sq quad box on the end. They will accept an FS box for that
 

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
True, but a raised cover and a plaster ring are not, which is what he was asking.

JAP>

I didn't say anything about a plaster/mud ring. I was pointing out that a raised cover and an industrial cover were the same thing.

the question was "what are they calling a raised cover? A mud ring with plastic plug plate? Industrial cover?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Well as I mentioned. OSHA routinely cites pendent drops made with 4" sq boxes and they will also cite a homemade extension cord with a 4" sq quad box on the end. They will accept an FS box for that

I get that but this wasn't OSHA that rejected it and apparent it wasn't a drop so unless this area is subject to water, damage etc I don't understand where the inspector is coming from.
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
I don't think you read Sierra's question right. I read his words to describe a coverplate, whether metallic or nonmetallic, that one commonly sees as the flush coverplate on drywall (or plaster) inside occupancies.

You seem to equate a "plate" and a "raised cover" as identical, but they are not.

a raised switch cover is used on a 1900 box for surface mount installs , while a switch plate is used on flush mounted swtches
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
So your saying if you mount a 4 square box to a block wall,,,install an industrial raised cover with a receptacle in it,,,, and someone comes along and installs a 2" thick finish on the block so that it comes out "Flush" with the front of the raised cover,,, its a code violation?

I doubt it.


JAP>
...raised covers are intended/designed for surface mounted applications, as mud rings are intended/designed for flush mounted applications.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
a raised switch cover is used on a 1900 box for surface mount installs , while a switch plate is used on flush mounted swtches

...raised covers are intended/designed for surface mounted applications, as mud rings are intended/designed for flush mounted applications.

That is your opinion. Try backing it up with a quote from either the National Electrical Code or the UL General Guide Information for Electrical Equipment (The White Book). I am specifically challenging you to find a regulatory quote that substantiates your opinion that a plaster ring mounted on a 4 inch square steel junction box (commonly known as a 1900 box) and covered with a generic 0.79 cent plastic coverplate CANNOT be a surface mounted exposed assembly.

You can't find any substantiation. Try it.

Your opinion is un-enforceable.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Actually, it's the other way around. If the AHJ rejects an assembly based on opinion, the burden of proof (acceptability) is on the installer.
So you are saying your AHJ never substantiates their "opinion" with quoted statute or other regulatory language?

Providing the published reference is standard operating procedure here.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
So you are saying your AHJ never substantiates their "opinion" with quoted statute or other regulatory language?

Providing the published reference is standard operating procedure here.
Yes, but where there is none as you have pointed out, it is left to the AHJ (or the inspector at hand in most cases) to make a judgement call based on their opinion.

I know from experience that mud ring and wall plate are intended for flush mount assemblies, while raised surface covers are intended for surface mount assemblies. I know it to be a fact... but you are correct in that I cannot provide papers to document as such.

If I were inspector, I'd reject every surface mount wall plate assembly based on that "opinion"... and I believe I would have the full backing of the office.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I know from experience that mud ring and wall plate are intended for flush mount assemblies, while raised surface covers are intended for surface mount assemblies. I know it to be a fact... but you are correct in that I cannot provide papers to document as such.

Then it is not a fact it is an opinion.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
It is your opinion it is not fact... not mine. Please do not confuse your opinions with my facts. :D

If it is "your fact", then substantiate it with ordinance. If you can't, your fact is patently opinion. ;)
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
If it is "your fact", then substantiate it with ordinance. If you can't, your fact is patently opinion. ;)
In many cases, the design use is in the name of the product (product label).

Need I explain a mud ring's design use.

Same goes for a wall plate.

The AHJ can reject your use based simply on 110.3(A). It is on you to prove the products are suitable in your surface mount assembly.
 

jumper

Senior Member
In many cases, the design use is in the name of the product (product label).

Need I explain a mud ring's design use.

Same goes for a wall plate.

The AHJ can reject your use based simply on 110.3(A). It is on you to prove the products are suitable in your surface mount assembly.

Can I use a mud ring on a 4" x 4" box and mount a t-stat or other device on it?
 
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