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Thread: Bumper Boat Power for Chargers

  1. #21
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    The boats house (4) deep discharge 6V batteries (wired in series for 24V). They're the same type batteries used in golf carts. When the batteries were delivered and installed in the boats it took about 1 hour for the battery to come up to full charge. However, the batteries were charged before they were placed on the pallet. I have no idea how long the batteries will take to charge after a total discharge. I'm assuming they will be plugged in at the end of the day and disconnected from the charger at the start of the day. No one at the camp is going to wait around until the batteries come up to full charge. The cgarger will shut itself off after it charges the batteries.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
    The boats house (4) deep discharge 6V batteries (wired in series for 24V). They're the same type batteries used in golf carts. When the batteries were delivered and installed in the boats it took about 1 hour for the battery to come up to full charge. However, the batteries were charged before they were placed on the pallet. I have no idea how long the batteries will take to charge after a total discharge. I'm assuming they will be plugged in at the end of the day and disconnected from the charger at the start of the day. No one at the camp is going to wait around until the batteries come up to full charge. The cgarger will shut itself off after it charges the batteries.
    The batteries will have a longer service life if they are not discharged completely before recharge, but the deterioration is minimized if they are put on charge immediately after the full discharge instead of waiting till the end of the day when all of the boats are brought in.
    A standard charge rate for golf cart type batteries can recover from near complete discharge to near full charge in about 8 hours. But the charge rate has to taper off as the batteries near full charge, so a complete charge cycle back to 100% could take longer.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    The batteries will have a longer service life if they are not discharged completely before recharge, but the deterioration is minimized if they are put on charge immediately after the full discharge instead of waiting till the end of the day when all of the boats are brought in.
    A standard charge rate for golf cart type batteries can recover from near complete discharge to near full charge in about 8 hours. But the charge rate has to taper off as the batteries near full charge, so a complete charge cycle back to 100% could take longer.
    Yes, which is why I am curious as to what the expected usage and charge times are and how well that impacts suitability for this application? Maybe at a camp it works out. At an amusement park or similar - might not be desirable compared to traditional gasoline powered bumper boat. On a busy day that "ride " might be shut down because too many boats are in need of recharging, and you don't just pour fuel in a minute or so and are good to go again.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #24
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    Just an update on this installation - after submitting wiring diagrams to the bldg. dept. the EI informed me that connecting the boats to the chargers at dockside and laying the connectors on the ground would not be acceptable. So, I agreed to run the 24 VDC circuit out to the edge of the dock using non-metallic seal tight and attach it to a 1-gang PVC JB where I'll install a 30A, 2-pole switch. Out of that JB will be the mate end to the boat power cord. I didn't question him at the time because he claimed that the NEC states that you have to provide a switch to turn off the power at dockside. In almost all other types of cases the plug suffices as an acceptable disconnect means. Why can't the plug (which is carrying 24 VDC) be an acceptable disconnect means in this case ?

    I don't really care one way or another, I'll get paid no matter what. It's just that this is an additional step in the installation process and I don't really see the maintenance crew using the switch, even though it's there for safety. Any opinions or remarks would be appreciated.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
    Just an update on this installation - after submitting wiring diagrams to the bldg. dept. the EI informed me that connecting the boats to the chargers at dockside and laying the connectors on the ground would not be acceptable. So, I agreed to run the 24 VDC circuit out to the edge of the dock using non-metallic seal tight and attach it to a 1-gang PVC JB where I'll install a 30A, 2-pole switch. Out of that JB will be the mate end to the boat power cord. I didn't question him at the time because he claimed that the NEC states that you have to provide a switch to turn off the power at dockside. In almost all other types of cases the plug suffices as an acceptable disconnect means. Why can't the plug (which is carrying 24 VDC) be an acceptable disconnect means in this case ?

    I don't really care one way or another, I'll get paid no matter what. It's just that this is an additional step in the installation process and I don't really see the maintenance crew using the switch, even though it's there for safety. Any opinions or remarks would be appreciated.
    Cord and plug is a disconnecting means. If it is listed as is - there isn't much EI can say about that.

    If it were hard wired unit, the breaker could be within sight - which includes up to 50 feet away. Need to check to be certain but I believe if not within sight a permanently attached provision for locking the breaker off would still be acceptable for this application.

    Are you extending the secondary conductors or using them as is?

    I still think electrical inspection primarily stops at the receptacle on this one - especially if the chargers are listed for the application.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Cord and plug is a disconnecting means. If it is listed as is - there isn't much EI can say about that.

    If it were hard wired unit, the breaker could be within sight - which includes up to 50 feet away. Need to check to be certain but I believe if not within sight a permanently attached provision for locking the breaker off would still be acceptable for this application.

    Are you extending the secondary conductors or using them as is?

    I still think electrical inspection primarily stops at the receptacle on this one - especially if the chargers are listed for the application.
    Thanks for the response. I'm in total agreement with you on this. I've e-mailed the bumper boat company requesting UL listings for the boats, chargers and connectors. The only thing I can somewhat agree with the EI on is plugging in the charger to the boat and laying the connector on the ground or dock and out in the rain. I foresee a problem down the line with that for a number of reasons including a shock hazard or corrosion. Just an FYI, these chargers will not turn on until they sense a battery and will automatically shut down when the battery is fully charged. That, in and of itself, should eliminate the need foe a separate switch disconnect IMHO. Remember, this is 24 VDC at dockside.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
    Thanks for the response. I'm in total agreement with you on this. I've e-mailed the bumper boat company requesting UL listings for the boats, chargers and connectors. The only thing I can somewhat agree with the EI on is plugging in the charger to the boat and laying the connector on the ground or dock and out in the rain. I foresee a problem down the line with that for a number of reasons including a shock hazard or corrosion. Just an FYI, these chargers will not turn on until they sense a battery and will automatically shut down when the battery is fully charged. That, in and of itself, should eliminate the need foe a separate switch disconnect IMHO. Remember, this is 24 VDC at dockside.
    It is portable equipment and not premises wiring as well. NEC stopped at the receptacle it plugs into.

    Cables laying on deck being a trip hazard is not an NEC issue. Maybe OSHA. OSHA wouldn't really apply to non employees that may be at risk, so liability insurance issue maybe applies to that. Anything non electrical in nature laying on deck is similar hazard.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  8. #28
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    Just a follow-up on this thread, I asked the bumper boat company for any UL listings on either the boats themselves or the chargers. This was their response :
    I don’t have any UL listing information. Our boats are designed to comply with ASTM regulations, which do not state any UL requirements. Since there are not ASTM specifications, it would defer back to the local state regulations.
    So, my question is "Would an EI be within his authority to insist that the boats or the chargers be UL listed if that listing doesn't exist"?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
    Just a follow-up on this thread, I asked the bumper boat company for any UL listings on either the boats themselves or the chargers. This was their response :So, my question is "Would an EI be within his authority to insist that the boats or the chargers be UL listed if that listing doesn't exist"?
    I would say on the chargers, yes. Since the boats plug in, I'm not so sure.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldstar View Post
    Just a follow-up on this thread, I asked the bumper boat company for any UL listings on either the boats themselves or the chargers. This was their response :So, my question is "Would an EI be within his authority to insist that the boats or the chargers be UL listed if that listing doesn't exist"?
    He might, but I don't think he can cite anything from NEC as justification. I still think NEC ends at the receptacle on this one.

    The chargers could be listed by some other NRTL.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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