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Thread: help with adding device to FA system.

  1. #1
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    help with adding device to FA system.

    I never learned any FA stuff, its kinda a separate trade where I learned. I know some basics, but thats it. I have a job that I just need to add in one strobe and one smoke, just looking for some guidance. The device/system programming will be taken care of by others, but I need to run and tie in the wiring to the existing loop. I dont know if it is class A or not, and Im not sure if that matters. This is in upstate NY, its pretty unregulated but I dont know what code or standard if any applies. Attached is a picture of the strobe, its simplex. So here are my questions:

    1) So basically when I add a device, can I tee/splice off an existing loop with a branch, or do I need to rearrange it so the loop goes both in and out of the new device?
    2) Can someone point to a basic smoke detector for this system? I got the new strobe by looking at what was there, but I forgot to look at a smoke and the job is kinda far away.
    3) The NAC conductors are red and black as expected, but the smokes are a cable assembly consisting of two ~18 guage wires. I am used to seeing blue and white. Is that abnormal?

    Thanks.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    I never learned any FA stuff, its kinda a separate trade where I learned. I know some basics, but thats it. I have a job that I just need to add in one strobe and one smoke, just looking for some guidance. The device/system programming will be taken care of by others, but I need to run and tie in the wiring to the existing loop. I dont know if it is class A or not, and Im not sure if that matters. This is in upstate NY, its pretty unregulated but I dont know what code or standard if any applies. Attached is a picture of the strobe, its simplex. So here are my questions:

    1) So basically when I add a device, can I tee/splice off an existing loop with a branch, or do I need to rearrange it so the loop goes both in and out of the new device?
    2) Can someone point to a basic smoke detector for this system? I got the new strobe by looking at what was there, but I forgot to look at a smoke and the job is kinda far away.
    3) The NAC conductors are red and black as expected, but the smokes are a cable assembly consisting of two ~18 guage wires. I am used to seeing blue and white. Is that abnormal?

    Thanks.
    1) You must add the device in series. You can do it via feed and return with a 4-conductor cable.
    2) This is kinda tough, as you don't indicate if it is addressable or conventional. Here is something for conventional, and here is something for addressable.
    3) Do you mean "wires" as in 2 conductors or "cables", as in a total of 4 conductors?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    1) You must add the device in series. You can do it via feed and return with a 4-conductor cable.
    2) This is kinda tough, as you don't indicate if it is addressable or conventional. Here is something for conventional, and here is something for addressable.
    3) Do you mean "wires" as in 2 conductors or "cables", as in a total of 4 conductors?
    1) Ok, its a single 3/4 pipe I brought from an existing 4 sq box to the new devices so I will go in and then back out.
    2) Oh of course, looking at the strobe wont tell you if its addressable, duh..
    3) Its a cable consisting of two conductors, that they interconnected the SD/HD with.

    Edit: thanks for the help!
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    1) Ok, its a single 3/4 pipe I brought from an existing 4 sq box to the new devices so I will go in and then back out.
    2) Oh of course, looking at the strobe wont tell you if its addressable, duh..
    3) Its a cable consisting of two conductors, that they interconnected the SD/HD with.

    Edit: thanks for the help!
    Prototypical "fire wire", 2-conductor

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    Prototypical "fire wire", 4-conductor

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    Prototypical "fire wire", 2-conductor

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Prototypical "fire wire", 4-conductor

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yup thats it. Most of my FA experience is actually in RI which I know is pretty strict.
    There I always see THHN.

    So Ill probably have to go back to find out if its addressable so I can get the appropriate detector.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    Yup thats it. Most of my FA experience is actually in RI which I know is pretty strict.
    There I always see THHN.

    So Ill probably have to go back to find out if its addressable so I can get the appropriate detector.
    Ahhh, yes, RI, which has more ridiculous laws than NJ, which I'd never have believed prior to coming to this forum.

  7. #7
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    help with adding device to FA system.

    You can t-tap off an slc circuit, smokes, pull stations, etc. Not a nac circuit.

    If I read correctly, you're trying to find a compatible detector? What kind of control panel is it?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Pro View Post
    You can t-tap off an slc circuit, smokes, pull stations, etc. Not a nac circuit.
    Why is that? almost seems like it would be the other way around.

    If I read correctly, you're trying to find a compatible detector? What kind of control panel is it?
    Yes but I will have to go back to get more info. I dont have any equipment info other than the picture of the strobe in the OP. I should be going back there tomorrow.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  9. #9
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    Next question. What is the procedure for disconnecting or interrupting a NAC or SLC loop? Will this set off the system or just give some sort of fault message at the control panel? What about taking the SD off its base?
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    Why is that? almost seems like it would be the other way around.



    Yes but I will have to go back to get more info. I dont have any equipment info other than the picture of the strobe in the OP. I should be going back there tomorrow.
    Assuming that the SLC loop is configured Class B, you can t-tap from a device to a nearby location because each device has a unique address and if it drops off the loop the panel knows right away, regardless of circuit configuration. You can't do this with the IDC of a conventional panel.

    The vast majority of notification appliances, even for addressable panels, are dumb. Supervision is provided by an end-of-line resistor (EOLR). If you t-tap the circuit and lose that branch, the panel will never know that those devices are missing because they don't run through the EOLR.
    Last edited by gadfly56; 05-22-18 at 11:20 AM.

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