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Thread: Equipotential grid

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkmagik21 View Post
    Mortar is porous so therefore not a permanent barrier
    Where in the exception does it say that a permanent barrier cannot be porous? A masonry wall or a wood fence would qualify as a permanent barrier. Isn't the purpose of the barrier to keep someone from contacting the metal?
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    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    A little confused at what you are getting at with this, might just be choice of wording though.

    Intent of equipotential bonding isn't to "ground" the objects in question - it is to bond all objects in the vicinity of the pool user so they are all at same potential - we sort of don't care what potential they are in relation to "ground". The entire pool could be sitting there at 100 volts above ground, but a well installed EPB system will leave the pool users with no clue they are "energized".

    Now that much voltage still likely yields problems at the perimeter of the deck and near other bonded objects, but located away from the pool.
    After all the posts I have made on equipotential bonding why do you think I don't know it's purpose. If I bond a gutter aren't I putting the stray voltage on a gutter that more than likely has no voltage on it. I am thinking of painters and roofers with aluminum ladders.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    After all the posts I have made on equipotential bonding why do you think I don't know it's purpose. If I bond a gutter aren't I putting the stray voltage on a gutter that more than likely has no voltage on it. I am thinking of painters and roofers with aluminum ladders.
    Yes you are putting the stray voltage on it, as well as everything else that is bonded to your network which is what equipotential bonding it about.

    If gutter in question is not within the zone required around a pool does your painters and roofers typically climb those aluminum ladders while barefoot, wearing swim suits, and possibly dripping wet after getting out of a pool? Said gutter isn't required to be bonded - but may inherently be bonded by something else leaving you with same issue.

    You do put that same possible stray voltage on a properly installed satellite dish, a service mast, maybe a rooftop HVAC unit.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Yes you are putting the stray voltage on it, as well as everything else that is bonded to your network which is what equipotential bonding it about.

    If gutter in question is not within the zone required around a pool does your painters and roofers typically climb those aluminum ladders while barefoot, wearing swim suits, and possibly dripping wet after getting out of a pool? Said gutter isn't required to be bonded - but may inherently be bonded by something else leaving you with same issue.

    You do put that same possible stray voltage on a properly installed satellite dish, a service mast, maybe a rooftop HVAC unit.

    Yes, I know all the above. A painter with an aluminum ladder set on the earth does not need to be barefoot to get shocked. I got nailed with the old wood ladder while it was raining and the ladder was damp.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Yes, I know all the above. A painter with an aluminum ladder set on the earth does not need to be barefoot to get shocked. I got nailed with the old wood ladder while it was raining and the ladder was damp.
    Guess we need to drive ground rods at the base of conductive ladders from now on
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Guess we need to drive ground rods at the base of conductive ladders from now on
    they make them like that now, not with a 10ft rod, just some 12" spikes for soft dirt applications. serves to help keep feet firmly in place, as well as makes electrical contact with earth.

    drive in a couple of gnd rods, bond it all, tie the bond to egc in multiple locations if possible. you then get no'y shock'y

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionaZuppa View Post
    ...drive in a couple of gnd rods, bond it all, tie the bond to egc in multiple locations if possible. you then get no'y shock'y
    As well as being a complete waste of time and resources that advice is completely wrong. Ground rods play no role in electrical safety and if you wanted to avoid a shock you would isolate you and your equipment from the ground.
    If you go and decide to dance with a gorilla the dance ain't over till the gorilla decides it's over.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    As well as being a complete waste of time and resources that advice is completely wrong. Ground rods play no role in electrical safety and if you wanted to avoid a shock you would isolate you and your equipment from the ground.
    party pooper
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I agree.. A pita job but it needs to be done. I have to do gutters and metal handrails for a sunken in the deck hot tub. Sucks. Why would I want to take stray voltage from the ground and put it on the gutters?
    Dennis, I replied to this initially because I wasn't sure if you actually worded it as you meant to say things. That or maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I though you were talking about a gutter and a metal hand rail withing vicinity of a hot tub, then you later bring up aluminum ladders and an energized gutter

    If it is within the required distance from the tub I was pretty sure you knew the rules and why they exist. But "Why would I want to take stray voltage from the ground and put it on the gutters?" had me questioning things.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I though you were talking about a gutter and a metal hand rail withing vicinity of a hot tub, then you later bring up aluminum ladders and an energized gutter
    Not sure why that is hard to understand. If you connect the equipotential bonding to the gutters then you are putting the stray voltage up at the roof and on the gutters. A person working on a conductive ladder leaning against the structure can be 20' or more away from the pool but the gutter may still be energized. Hence, the ladder is grounded to the earth and the gutter has voltage on it. What happens when you touch the gutter? That is my point
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



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