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Thread: Equipotential grid

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    As worded there is no requirement to directly connect it to equipment grounding other then in the case of a double insulated pump. The connection to an EGC inherently happens when we bond to the pump motor or any other item that is also connected to the EGC.

    680.26(A):"The equipotential bonding required by this section shall be installed to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area." kind of tells us the intent of equipotential bonding. We sort of don't care what the voltage is to items away from the pool, though if you bring anything connected to EGC into the area and you will be bonded to the EGC.
    All that is true, and as Dennis said, there are wording semantics at play. A system wired according to code WILL be connected to the EGC. The fact that the connection is via the bond to the pump, which has an EGC connection is irrelevant from an electrical perspective. I don't understand why they back into this way with the indirect wording, and believe that they should require a stranded connection to the pump (vibration) or a direct connection to the EGC in all cases. Since a connection has to be made, make it clear and make it something that won't break due to vibration fatigue several years down the line.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigv View Post
    All that is true, and as Dennis said, there are wording semantics at play. A system wired according to code WILL be connected to the EGC. The fact that the connection is via the bond to the pump, which has an EGC connection is irrelevant from an electrical perspective. I don't understand why they back into this way with the indirect wording, and believe that they should require a stranded connection to the pump (vibration) or a direct connection to the EGC in all cases. Since a connection has to be made, make it clear and make it something that won't break due to vibration fatigue several years down the line.
    so you think 680 needs some revamping?

  3. #73
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    The pool pump is not the only place that the EGC is connected to the EPBG.

    Pool autocover motor
    Pool heater
    Pool light
    If there is only a pump on a basic pool then yes it would only be connected at that one spot. But does not need to be and that is why they word it the way they do. Because if you have a double insulated pool pump motor and that’s it on a basic pool then there will be no connection to the EGC. The EPBG is just there to make sure there is no differential between each metal item to protect from shock that way. All the EGC connection will do is make sure if something shirts to it that it trips the breaker or gfci. (Assuming it’s from that same power source as the ground)
    A gfci will trip in both instances. But let’s say a power cord ran from the neighbors house on a non gfci outlet. Or a power line that falls down. (Unlikely but it can happen)


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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionaZuppa View Post
    so you think 680 needs some revamping?
    Yep.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkmagik21 View Post
    The pool pump is not the only place that the EGC is connected to the EPBG.

    Pool autocover motor
    Pool heater
    Pool light
    If there is only a pump on a basic pool then yes it would only be connected at that one spot. But does not need to be and that is why they word it the way they do. Because if you have a double insulated pool pump motor and that’s it on a basic pool then there will be no connection to the EGC. The EPBG is just there to make sure there is no differential between each metal item to protect from shock that way. All the EGC connection will do is make sure if something shirts to it that it trips the breaker or gfci. (Assuming it’s from that same power source as the ground)
    A gfci will trip in both instances. But let’s say a power cord ran from the neighbors house on a non gfci outlet. Or a power line that falls down. (Unlikely but it can happen)


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    680.26(B)(6)(a) Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a double insulated
    water pump motor is installed under the provisions of
    this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of sufficient length
    to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be
    extended from the bonding grid to an accessible point in the
    vicinity of the pool pump motor. Where there is no connection
    between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment
    grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor
    shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of
    the motor circuit.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigv View Post
    All that is true, and as Dennis said, there are wording semantics at play. A system wired according to code WILL be connected to the EGC. The fact that the connection is via the bond to the pump, which has an EGC connection is irrelevant from an electrical perspective. I don't understand why they back into this way with the indirect wording, and believe that they should require a stranded connection to the pump (vibration) or a direct connection to the EGC in all cases. Since a connection has to be made, make it clear and make it something that won't break due to vibration fatigue several years down the line.
    Send in your PI ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Craigv View Post
    680.26(B)(6)(a) Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a double insulated
    water pump motor is installed under the provisions of
    this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of sufficient length
    to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be
    extended from the bonding grid to an accessible point in the
    vicinity of the pool pump motor. Where there is no connection
    between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment
    grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor
    shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of
    the motor circuit.
    Now what happens if there is no electric driven pump for some reason? I know it would be rare but probably not impossible.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  7. #77
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    Large bodies of water installed are “supposed” to be installed with a bonding grid too but no one ever does.


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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Send in your PI ...

    Now what happens if there is no electric driven pump for some reason? I know it would be rare but probably not impossible.
    Then pigs fly!

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Send in your PI ...

    Now what happens if there is no electric driven pump for some reason? I know it would be rare but probably not impossible.
    thats the new exercise craze that is coming right after yoga with goats dies off. in order to take a lap in the pool you need to pedal a stationary that has a belt drive pump on it, to circulate the water some before you take a dip

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkmagik21 View Post
    Large bodies of water installed are “supposed” to be installed with a bonding grid too but no one ever does.


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    I think you are leaving out some info. The entire lake doesn't need to be in the equipotential plane. LOL

    This is for artificial and man-made bodies of water with electrical

    682.33 Equipotential Planes and Bonding of Equipotential
    Planes. An equipotential plane shall be installed where
    required in this section to mitigate step and touch voltages at
    electrical equipment.
    (A) Areas Requiring Equipotential Planes. Equipotential
    planes shall be installed adjacent to all outdoor service equipment
    or disconnecting means that control equipment in or on
    water, that have a metallic enclosure and controls accessible to
    personnel, and that are likely to become energized. The equipotential
    plane shall encompass the area around the equipment
    and shall extend from the area directly below the
    equipment out not less than 900 mm (36 in.) in all directions
    from which a person would be able to stand and come in
    contact with the equipment
    .
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



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