Lessons for the young guys

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teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
I'm studying for my TX Master Electrician exam and through the years have gotten some sound advice from the old guys I work around about the business.

Any of you masters have advice for a young (30yr old) up-and-comer about owning a company in this trade?

Any do's or don'ts you'd like to pass on to the next generation of sparky's? I've heard "know a good lawyer" and "don't trust contracts, read read read" oh and "keep up with taxes" and "service margins are almost double construction margins-in Austin TX anyways".


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Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I'm studying for my TX Master Electrician exam and through the years have gotten some sound advice from the old guys I work around about the business.

Any of you masters have advice for a young (30yr old) up-and-comer about owning a company in this trade?

Any do's or don'ts you'd like to pass on to the next generation of sparky's? I've heard "know a good lawyer" and "don't trust contracts, read read read" oh and "keep up with taxes" and "service margins are almost double construction margins-in Austin TX anyways".


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You already know more than I did, if you practice it. Your Mother, Father, and Grandparents get "freebies", because they did not slay you during infancy. Everyone else...$$$$.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Know what your true cost are.
*Occupational Licenses-Permits
* Insurance
* Vehicles
*Tools
* Workers Comp
*Office supplies
* Cell phone/Land line
* Lawyer & Accountant
* Retirement
*Wages
*etc etc

Figure out what it cost you to show up ready to work. Then add some more $$ to that value.
Have you taken the Ellen Rhor weekend course ? It is said to be very beneficial. Others will chime in.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Figure out what it cost you to show up ready to work. Then add some more $$ to that value.
Have you taken the Ellen Rohr weekend course ? It is said to be very beneficial. Others will chime in.

yes, they will.
hi. i'm from the internet, and i'm here to help.

http://www.ellenrohr.com/the-bare-bones-biz-plan/

spend $20 and do this. do this before you do anything else.
spend a weekend, doing this.

i've championed her stuff here since i tried it, to the point of being
obnoxious about it. it worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HxBR13GaV8
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Don't take jobs just because it's work. Always put enough on top to make money. If you don't land every project, you are on the right path.

I've heard that one too. If you're getting every job you're too cheap, if you're losing every bid you're too expensive, if it's half and half you're on target.

Thanks!


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teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Know what your true cost are.
*Occupational Licenses-Permits
* Insurance
* Vehicles
*Tools
* Workers Comp
*Office supplies
* Cell phone/Land line
* Lawyer & Accountant
* Retirement
*Wages
*etc etc

Figure out what it cost you to show up ready to work. Then add some more $$ to that value.
Have you taken the Ellen Rhor weekend course ? It is said to be very beneficial. Others will chime in.

Thank you, great way of looking at it. I haven't heard of Ellen Rhor but I'll check into that.


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teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Anyone have tips on hiring? When to hire your first helper, your first journeyman? Or what to look for/stay away from when interviewing journeymen.


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cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Anyone have tips on hiring? When to hire your first helper, your first journeyman? Or what to look for/stay away from when interviewing journeymen.


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My thought on this one is pretty simple. When you're new and small, people are usually calling because they've heard of you and the work you do. If you hire someone and keep sending them out to do the actual work, then the people could hire anyone, since they aren't getting you anyway. Only hire someone if you are going to be doing jobs that require help and/or you are sure that you can keep someone busy 40 hrs a week. Remember that they are counting on you for their lively hood and if every few days you tell them that you don't have enough work for them for the week, they are going to have issues.

Hope that made sense.
 

just the cowboy

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Location
newburgh,ny
Working alone

Working alone

Having your own business is not always good for your health both mentally and physically.

You WILL put in allot of hours to keep up with paperwork, and after a 10 - 16 hour day that is not fun, but if you don't no one will.

Sometimes having that extra set of hands helps and when you are alone that is not going to happen. (I learned a lot of tricks for working alone).

Take a Small Business Course even if you think you know allot about it.

Working alone every day gets old; this field is built on comradery.
When I started my business I had an old biddy as a small business class teacher that I did not get along with because I was so far ahead of the class. One day in a discussion with her she said " You have been in maintenance for over 20 years think you can work alone all day" I answered "sure no problem'. Those words haunt me to this day that is why I shut my business down, because I couldn’t take working all day alone there was no motivation.
 
From the business side-
Don't give credit, you're not a bank. You might accept credit cards for payment, Square is good for this, but don't give terms unless you're ready to be stiffed a time or two.

Don't discount unless you really need to, and definitely not to get a foot in the door*. If you do discount, show that on the bill ($500 parts & labor - $100 discount = $400 total due) so the customer knows the real cost.

*"if you'll work for this low rate, I may have more work for you"; "in a pig's nose you will"

Work up a network of friends you can send work to, if needed. Just like subbing out a long trench or paint, do what you're productive at doing. I'm not saying that you should sub those, but be ready if you need to. Have the relationships set up so you don't have to find someone to dig that hole on a day's notice.

From the electrical side-
Know you strengths and weaknesses. Don't like bending rigid pipe? Don't take jobs where you'll have to do that (factory bends are your friend). Consider learning a special area and get known for that (pools, spas, smart-homes, motor controls, etc). It'll take a while for that, but when you're known as The Guy in the area for QQQ-brand controls, you'll get work. That does take time.

If a vendor or manufacturer offers some cheap or free training, take it.

And keep learning the trade, none of us are ever done with that, unless we retire....
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Anyone have tips on hiring? When to hire your first helper, your first journeyman? Or what to look for/stay away from when interviewing journeymen.

you need to plug that into the business plan.
some base it on dollar volume, some base it on logistics.

a good rule of thumb is to hire someone when you absolutely
can't do it by yourself any more. adding ONE person to a one
man band changes a lot of stuff, legally. workers comp, bookkeeping, etc.
it's also a person you are responsible for.

i'd look for a helper before i looked for a journeyman. if you have someone
paying attention, helping, so you can rock at full tilt, it helps a lot.

i've been doing a 1 man band since 2006, this time, and have buried myself
a couple times where i ended up doing some pretty hard work weeks.

but today's a friday, i'm doing paperwork this morning, and i'm thinking
i might take this afternoon off, and maybe just screw around a bit.

if i had employees, i'd be off making sure they were doing ok, most likely.

on the other hand, i'm getting up at 1 am monday morning, and doing work
in south san francisco, scotts valley, and huntington beach, before i go back to bed.
it's gonna be a long day.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
you need to plug that into the business plan.
some base it on dollar volume, some base it on logistics.

a good rule of thumb is to hire someone when you absolutely
can't do it by yourself any more. adding ONE person to a one
man band changes a lot of stuff, legally. workers comp, bookkeeping, etc.
it's also a person you are responsible for.

i'd look for a helper before i looked for a journeyman. if you have someone
paying attention, helping, so you can rock at full tilt, it helps a lot.

i've been doing a 1 man band since 2006, this time, and have buried myself
a couple times where i ended up doing some pretty hard work weeks.

but today's a friday, i'm doing paperwork this morning, and i'm thinking
i might take this afternoon off, and maybe just screw around a bit.

if i had employees, i'd be off making sure they were doing ok, most likely.

on the other hand, i'm getting up at 1 am monday morning, and doing work
in south san francisco, scotts valley, and huntington beach, before i go back to bed.
it's gonna be a long day.


Not trying to hijack the thread but did you ever take that bike trip?
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
My thought on this one is pretty simple. When you're new and small, people are usually calling because they've heard of you and the work you do. If you hire someone and keep sending them out to do the actual work, then the people could hire anyone, since they aren't getting you anyway. Only hire someone if you are going to be doing jobs that require help and/or you are sure that you can keep someone busy 40 hrs a week. Remember that they are counting on you for their lively hood and if every few days you tell them that you don't have enough work for them for the week, they are going to have issues.

Hope that made sense.

Crystal clear, thank you


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Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Not trying to hijack the thread but did you ever take that bike trip?

no, sir. i was in the middle of crazy nuts busy.

the problem is, my new workflow is looking like august & september
will be a third of my annual income, going forward.

even if i had employees to help out, there is no way i coulda disappeared
across the spine of idaho for ten days. i believe six people made it this year.
and it's only able to be ridden aug. and sept.

we will see what next year looks like. as my wife says, you can do anything you
want, but you can't do everything you want.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Not a master but from my previous experience working for myself on the communications side of electrical work (commercial; mostly hotels), and now working for a master electrician in a 2-man company that does mainly residential with some commercial, I will offer this:

always have what you need on the truck. Stay organized. If you have to run out mid-job to get a <$2 part, buy 3 or 4 of them (or more) more than you need. Keep your work vehicle organized and lay it out well. In the last two months, Ive seen the bossman have to go to the supply house for unexpected trips to the tune of about 15 lost hours of time. Now, I get paid by the hour, so it's no skin off my back, but when I ran a company, that costs me money, or having to work late/on a Saturday.

Do as much "pre-work" as possible; stuff like unwrapping wall plates and putting the screws in the covers. You can do that in your living room while watching TV instead of on site where it might be freezing or hot as hades. Same as charging batteries, or putting fittings in boxes, unwrapping LED trims. Cut down on packaging as much as you can. Anything that is cheap, keep it on the truck.

If you have a call for say, dryer or range not working, go ahead and get a few 3 and 4 wire receptacles, cord assemblies, everything you might need for the job. You wont need all of that for the call, but you'll probably use it within a year. The further out the call, the more it's gonna hurt you not having a simple part on the truck.

The biggest thing I've seen so far is look clean, act professionally, be courteous, and if you know you'll need it, show up with a shop-vac and drop cloth in hand. When you are done with a service call, the place should look as if you were never there. Always carry a change of clothes (shoes too) or two on the truck, even with a tyvek suit, crawlspaces and digging trenches is dirty work. It looks bad to do that, then show up to a high-end home all nasty and sweaty. Do a job right the first time; it looks more professional to the customer, and if you spend an extra five minutes verifying your work, so be it: it's far less time than a callback will cost you.

Shop around a bit on prices. Sometimes on-line can beat supply house prices by a big margin.

Learn the NEC and building codes for your location.
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Not a master but from my previous experience working for myself on the communications side of electrical work (commercial; mostly hotels), and now working for a master electrician in a 2-man company that does mainly residential with some commercial, I will offer this:

always have what you need on the truck. Stay organized. If you have to run out mid-job to get a <$2 part, buy 3 or 4 of them (or more) more than you need. Keep your work vehicle organized and lay it out well. In the last two months, Ive seen the bossman have to go to the supply house for unexpected trips to the tune of about 15 lost hours of time. Now, I get paid by the hour, so it's no skin off my back, but when I ran a company, that costs me money, or having to work late/on a Saturday.

Do as much "pre-work" as possible; stuff like unwrapping wall plates and putting the screws in the covers. You can do that in your living room while watching TV instead of on site where it might be freezing or hot as hades. Same as charging batteries, or putting fittings in boxes, unwrapping LED trims. Cut down on packaging as much as you can. Anything that is cheap, keep it on the truck.

If you have a call for say, dryer or range not working, go ahead and get a few 3 and 4 wire receptacles, cord assemblies, everything you might need for the job. You wont need all of that for the call, but you'll probably use it within a year. The further out the call, the more it's gonna hurt you not having a simple part on the truck.

The biggest thing I've seen so far is look clean, act professionally, be courteous, and if you know you'll need it, show up with a shop-vac and drop cloth in hand. When you are done with a service call, the place should look as if you were never there. Always carry a change of clothes (shoes too) or two on the truck, even with a tyvek suit, crawlspaces and digging trenches is dirty work. It looks bad to do that, then show up to a high-end home all nasty and sweaty. Do a job right the first time; it looks more professional to the customer, and if you spend an extra five minutes verifying your work, so be it: it's far less time than a callback will cost you.

Shop around a bit on prices. Sometimes on-line can beat supply house prices by a big margin.

Learn the NEC and building codes for your location.

A lot of good stuff in there chap. I currently work for a master with 2 of us journeymen and a helper each. Efficiency, proper planning, and testing at the end save loads of time and money. Doing it right and being professional and courteous is huge...couldn't agree more.

Thanks for the input


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fisherelectric

Senior Member
Location
Northern Va
I can tell you that your own business is not a job, it's a life style.
Expect to spend a lot of time on things that are not directly billable time. Going on estimates, figuring, typing up and sending out bids, scheduling, getting permits, paying bills, doing your billing, scheduling, buying material, screwing around with local, state, and Federal taxes and the innumerable forms and returns you have to deal with, scheduling, answering your mail, your emails, and your texts, dealing with insurance, organizing your shop, your office, and your truck, repairing your truck and your tools, etc. and more scheduling. Lots of scheduling. Especially once you have employees. You'll find that after working an 8 hour day, you'll start the night shift taking care of those kind of things. And when you get older you won't feel much like working more after an 8 or 10 hour day so you'll either take a day during the week or end up doing it on weekends. Keep that in mind when you figure how much to charge.
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
I can tell you that your own business is not a job, it's a life style.
Expect to spend a lot of time on things that are not directly billable time. Going on estimates, figuring, typing up and sending out bids, scheduling, getting permits, paying bills, doing your billing, scheduling, buying material, screwing around with local, state, and Federal taxes and the innumerable forms and returns you have to deal with, scheduling, answering your mail, your emails, and your texts, dealing with insurance, organizing your shop, your office, and your truck, repairing your truck and your tools, etc. and more scheduling. Lots of scheduling. Especially once you have employees. You'll find that after working an 8 hour day, you'll start the night shift taking care of those kind of things. And when you get older you won't feel much like working more after an 8 or 10 hour day so you'll either take a day during the week or end up doing it on weekends. Keep that in mind when you figure how much to charge.

Thank you


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