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Thread: Receptacle

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    You would have to submit a PI for the 2023 code. They will be due in early September or 2020.
    PI? How?

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by codequestion View Post
    PI? How?

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    Look at the last pages in your code book, it will tell you how. You can also go to the NFPA website.

    Roger
    Moderator

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by codequestion View Post
    Scenario may have been overlooked by NEC? Revision to the NEC 2020 or 2017 if still possible?

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    15 amp receptacles on 20 amp branch circuits with most the conditions we currently have has been allowed for a very long time, I don't think it is overlooked it is just not seen as a problem.

    Also as mentioned internal components of a 15 and 20 are pretty much the same thing - and many probably are exactly the same.

    You have much higher risk of overheating the receptacle if you have a poor connection involved then if you had 20 amps of load through the 15 amp device.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    15 amp receptacles on 20 amp branch circuits with most the conditions we currently have has been allowed for a very long time, I don't think it is overlooked it is just not seen as a problem.

    Also as mentioned internal components of a 15 and 20 are pretty much the same thing - and many probably are exactly the same.

    You have much higher risk of overheating the receptacle if you have a poor connection involved then if you had 20 amps of load through the 15 amp device.
    How is the cord and plug nema 5-15p of kitchen equipment protected if you install 20 amps breaker and 20 or 15 amp receptacle in commercial kitchen and somehow more than 15 amps but less than 20 amps current is drawn? Fire hazard in long run no?

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by codequestion View Post
    How is the cord and plug nema 5-15p of kitchen equipment protected if you install 20 amps breaker and 20 or 15 amp receptacle in commercial kitchen and somehow more than 15 amps but less than 20 amps current is drawn? Fire hazard in long run no?

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    Pretty much anything you can think of can happen and be a hazard, however the likelihood of such an event has to be taken into account. To get a code change, you will need evidence and documentation that there is an issue.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    Pretty much anything you can think of can happen and be a hazard, however the likelihood of such an event has to be taken into account. To get a code change, you will need evidence and documentation that there is an issue.
    I have no evidence but it is a likelyhood of happening. It is calculated simple math. Is AHJ going to take that chance?

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by codequestion View Post
    How is the cord and plug nema 5-15p of kitchen equipment protected if you install 20 amps breaker and 20 or 15 amp receptacle in commercial kitchen and somehow more than 15 amps but less than 20 amps current is drawn? Fire hazard in long run no?

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    How is an 18-2 lamp cord plugged into a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle on a 20 amp breaker protected?

    Been determined those things are acceptable long ago. If you can convince CMP's this ins't good then you are welcome to submit PI to make changes in the future.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  8. #28
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    If you have a clock radio plugged into a 15A receptacle, it probably has 18 AWG conductors in its supply cable. And it won't have an egc. Ask yourself how is this protected?

    A breaker with a 20A trip rating my permit 25A to flow indefinitely (look up breaker trip curves). Ask how a 20A receptacle is protected.

    Code is about _practical_ safeguarding, not perfect protection. Devices are designed with excess capacity (headroom) to accommodate things like production tolerances, and some types of fault are very rare or quickly progress to a detectable fault.

    -Jon

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by winnie View Post
    If you have a clock radio plugged into a 15A receptacle, it probably has 18 AWG conductors in its supply cable. And it won't have an egc. Ask yourself how is this protected?

    A breaker with a 20A trip rating my permit 25A to flow indefinitely (look up breaker trip curves). Ask how a 20A receptacle is protected.

    Code is about _practical_ safeguarding, not perfect protection. Devices are designed with excess capacity (headroom) to accommodate things like production tolerances, and some types of fault are very rare or quickly progress to a detectable fault.

    -Jon
    My house checked every duplex receptacle. Duplex Nema 5-15R has 15 amps breaker. Not single one has 20 amps breaker. What about that? Why wasnt 20 amps breaker installed then?

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by codequestion View Post
    I have no evidence but it is a likelyhood of happening. It is calculated simple math. Is AHJ going to take that chance?

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    We should probably not allow the following then:

    1. Feeder taps
    2. Sum of breaker ratings to exceed panel supply
    3. MLO service panelboards
    4. Ampacity of SEC sized to load where there are multiple mains.
    5. Duplex receptacles
    6. The higher protection allowances for motors and transformers.
    7. The list goes on.....
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

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