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Thread: Disagreement W/ Inspector - Ethics

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Strathead View Post
    What comes first the chicken or the egg? Don't get hung up. If it is hooked in to the emergency panel then it is an emergency circuit. Whether it is a legally required emergency circuit and therefor correctly installed is a different issue. That is perfectly clear to me.
    No, that is simply not true.

    700.2 Definitions.

    Emergency Systems. Those systems legally required and
    classed as emergency by municipal, state, federal, or other
    codes, or by any governmental agency having jurisdiction.
    These systems are intended to automatically supply illumi-
    nation, power, or both, to designated areas and equipment
    in the event of failure of the normal supply or in the event
    of accident to elements of a system intended to supply,
    distribute, and control power and illumination essential for
    safety to human life.
    Unless the circuit meets the purpose above it's not an emergency circuit. If you put it on the emergency ATS it's simply an error.
    Last edited by gadfly56; 07-19-18 at 09:59 AM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Ocala, Florida, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    No, that is simply not true.

    Unless the circuit meets the purpose above it's not an emergency circuit. If you put it on the emergency ATS it's simply an error.
    Wow, I'd bet you would argue with a rock. If you put it on the emergency ATS it's simply an illegal emergency circuit. Is an equally valid statement.

    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    St. Louis, MO - USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Gshell82 View Post
    I have a situation where I did the electrical design for an apt. bldg. with a generator.

    The owner is putting in a generator large enough to power the entire building so the main house panel is going to be on the generator.

    My design has a separate transfer switch / panel for the emergency/egress lights since they are considered life safety and the main house panel on the generator has other loads which can't be considered emergency.

    The inspector said you don't need the second transfer switch and I am sure this is wrong. Obv. I know it will work but do I submit the design without the 2nd transfer switch (even though I know this is wrong) or lose a client/give back his money?

    Thank You
    I know I am very late to this game and many of you may not even see my response - the first clarification needed is to understand if this building will have utility power. You MUST establish "normal" power and "emergency" power sources. If there is utility power, that would be the "normal" source. Next question is what will the inhabitants of the building do when "normal" power fails - if they evacuate the building using genset-powered lights, then the genset is an "emergency" power source ... if, on the other hand, they continue to carry on life as normal, then the genset is simply a second "normal" power source. If they continue to occupy the building on genset power and there is no other emergency power source for egress lighting, how will they exit the building when the genset runs out of fuel, fails due to overtemperature or low oil pressure or for any other reason? If there is no utility power, then the genset is the "normal" power source and cannot also act as the "emergency" source. In this situation, if the genset fails, ALL lighting is lost.

    If the intention is to continue occupancy on genset power, then the genset is a standby (second "normal" source) and there is no requirement for separate wiring systems, second ATS or any of the other stuff that goes along with EMERGENCY GENERATORS. There is, however, a requirement for battery-backup egress lighting so that the occupants can safely exit the building when / if the genset stops operating and utility power is still unavailable.

    Although it is not written anywhere that I can find, it seems that emergency lighting (unit battery pack equipment) defines the intention that a building will be vacated within 90 minutes after "normal" power failure. If there is utility power and 100% genset backup but occupancy is intended to continue for more than 90 minutes after the genset starts, I put in battery E-lights. Maybe this is overkill, but I don't want the lawsuits when someone can't find their way out of a dark building.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    Have a lawyer draw up a document that places all the blame and financial responsibility for anything untoward that happens on the premises related to the lack of the second ATS squarely on the shoulders of the inspector. Have him and his boss sign it, and then build the system to his specifications. Walk away whistling.
    Some states have 'plan review' , resolving in their 'stamp', thus the passage places the onus of compliance upon them>>>>(my bold)

    700.5 Transfer Equipment.
    (A) General. Transfer equipment, including automatic trans‐
    fer switches, shall be automatic, identified for emergency use,
    and approved by the authority having jurisdiction.
    Further, some states have a method of formal complaint , in other words one could let them make the design call, and then document a complaint against it

    not exactly the way to make peace with one's AHJ, but certainly a shield against litigation and liability


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