24v5w xenon applicati on in crown / dome...

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All,

Have lurked this board for many years and have enjoyed reading / learning through other's experiences...and now I actually have a reason to post!...as follows:

Doing some general contracting in a client's home and have come across this dilemma. Existing elliptically shaped dome in DR ceiling is lamped with a 24v driven system (S1) with ~32 linear feet of 24v5w clear xenon lamps (~200 bulbs). Approximately 4/5 of the bulbs currently require re-lamping, but I'm wondering about either re-lamping to LED equivalents (which don't seem to be available in a non-dimming bulb type), or abandoning this set up and installing an LED tape product alongside. The client has already had us re-lamp entire home with LED fixtures and I'm trying to be forward-thinking here...but I think that I may be over-thinking this. Just trying to do the right thing from both a forward maintenance view and client perspective. Personally, I really like LED products, but also know they are in the early developmental stages still...any thoughts / ideas from others who may have encountered similar situations would be greatly appreciated and thank you.
 

ActionDave

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Congrats to you for coming out of shadows.

All I know about your situation is that 24V halogen/xenon are terrible. I, like you, am not sure about LEDs living up to their claims of longevity, but I would use them in a case such as yours.

I do some regular maintenance work on a large house with a kitchen lit with low vo MR16s and we switched them out to LED about a year ago. So far they are holding up.
 
...thank you Dave for the welcome -- this really is a great board! As for the rec, if there was an LED compatible 24v/5w we'd change them out to those in a heartbeat...but all I've found so far are dimmables - which are far too pricey. Hate to re-lamp with the OE type, but it may be the best way until the market catches up with demand.
 

ActionDave

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I don't think non-dimmable would be any less in price. I think that is what is available to appeal to a broader market.

A full re-lamp may be too expensive. I my case the customer was so annoyed by replacing lamps all the time that they didn't care about the cost.
 

JFletcher

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Location
Williamsburg, VA
re: life, some exit signs have LEDs that are rated to last for 50,000 hours or more. That said, we have replaced failed tape strips that were fairly new.

I second ActionDave's view that low voltage halogen/xenon bulbs are terrible. We had these monstrosities at the hotel where I used to work. The bulbs are relatively expensive, short lived, and half the time the socket had failed. Entirely too much maintenance. imo the only place they belong is in an automobile.

LED strips seem reliable enough so far; the failures/problems we've had is with the connectors (shop around; some are much easier to use and more reliable than others) and the transformer/rectifiers going out
 
...thank you both for the replies...! What I'm finding with the LEDs are WIDE variances in price (will buy these online as opposed to supply house) and then I also wonder about the quality of these bulbs based on those wide variances. OE xenon's, 24v5w-x are ~1.75/per x 200 = $350. LEDs I've found as low as .80/per and as high as $9.00/per!!! :blink:

JF -- with the LED tape, would I need to changeout the transformer(s) from the original xenon, or (as I would think), would the originals drive the LED tape?

Dave -- customer can absorb the cost...this is an A+ construction and the owner's keep it well-maintained and are fans of new-tech products.

I attached a photo for kicks...
 

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JF -- as soon as I posted, I realized that (I'm sure) the LED tape is going to require proprietary drivers for those products...original 120/24v would be scrapped out. Senior moment...
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
JF -- as soon as I posted, I realized that (I'm sure) the LED tape is going to require proprietary drivers for those products...original 120/24v would be scrapped out. Senior moment...

Some LED strips are 24V, but we've used mostly the 12V systems. The drivers are cheap. On-line beats supply house prices by a large margin.

32' would be 2 16' strips and 2 drivers. Even installing 2 concentric tape strips and 4 drivers would be cheaper than replacing all those xenon bulbs ever few months.

Thank you for the pics; that's an interesting setup for sure.
 

ActionDave

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Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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...thank you both for the replies...! What I'm finding with the LEDs are WIDE variances in price (will buy these online as opposed to supply house) and then I also wonder about the quality of these bulbs based on those wide variances. OE xenon's, 24v5w-x are ~1.75/per x 200 = $350. LEDs I've found as low as .80/per and as high as $9.00/per!!! :blink:

JF -- with the LED tape, would I need to changeout the transformer(s) from the original xenon, or (as I would think), would the originals drive the LED tape?

Dave -- customer can absorb the cost...this is an A+ construction and the owner's keep it well-maintained and are fans of new-tech products.

I attached a photo for kicks...
I would replace those with LED strips or flex in a second.

Well it would take more than a second, probably a day.
 
Thnak you AD and JF for the replies...!...leaning toward replacing and will probably (due to field conditions), abandon the existing xenon setup and install the LED tape alongside (above) the abandoned xenon strips. Have room to do it and even the tallest persons (NBA players) wouldn't be able to see the old or new...thoughts?
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Thnak you AD and JF for the replies...!...leaning toward replacing and will probably (due to field conditions), abandon the existing xenon setup and install the LED tape alongside (above) the abandoned xenon strips. Have room to do it and even the tallest persons (NBA players) wouldn't be able to see the old or new...thoughts?

You're welcome. I am sure the NEC requires removing abandoned wiring, not so much about eqpt/fixtures. If the HO will pay for the removal time, I'd gut the existing lighting.

eta: hard to tell from the pic, but mounting the strips on the bottom (inside of the xenon bulbs), facing up, may work better than mounting above the xenon bulbs facing out (toward the room).
 
cpinetree -- When I saw your reply and the word Kichler and expensive in it, I thought I was prepared to see the price...I wasn't! Componetry seemed reasonable, but the tape was...expensive! But if it lasts and was easy to work with, it may be worth the price.

JF -- good idea re: mounting (beneath existing) on dome's floor.

JF, AD, iwire -- Only fixtures themselves would be left in place -- existing wiring for service would be utilized. Wiring (within those xenon tracks) and the tracks themselves would be only items abandoned. Only reason to leave is that home is really pristine...just trying to keep the mess down to a small cloud...! Preference is always to abate though where we can...crew is in there today and I'm going to scope it one last time and get my final field measures/specs. Appreciate all replies and happy holidays to all!
 
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