Bipolar aspect of our industry.

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T-Wragg

Senior Member
Location
Paradise, California, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Our industry is regulated by the NEC. I understand with the provision of the local municipality accepting, amending and enforcing it.

I have spent years studying the NEC in an attempt to better understand it and be a better electrician. The invaluable information I have gained from this forum has assisted in doing just that. I thank you all. Being a part of this Forum, I know that I am just one of many thousands who have done the same thing. I am not complaining, I love studying the NEC, and I have always had all of the work I have ever wanted.

What I don’t understand is that in an industry that is so potentially dangerous, why is there such a lax attitude concerning General Contractors and unlicensed handymen doing electrical work without proper training? I understand with homeowners doing their own work that there is a sense that their home is their castle.

This bipolar aspect of our industry has just never made sense to me.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Our industry is regulated by the NEC. I understand with the provision of the local municipality accepting, amending and enforcing it.

I have spent years studying the NEC in an attempt to better understand it and be a better electrician. The invaluable information I have gained from this forum has assisted in doing just that. I thank you all. Being a part of this Forum, I know that I am just one of many thousands who have done the same thing. I am not complaining, I love studying the NEC, and I have always had all of the work I have ever wanted.

What I don’t understand is that in an industry that is so potentially dangerous, why is there such a lax attitude concerning General Contractors and unlicensed handymen doing electrical work without proper training? I understand with homeowners doing their own work that there is a sense that their home is their castle.

This bipolar aspect of our industry has just never made sense to me.

It is, I think, a testament to the conservative attitude that the NFPA adopts when considering regulations and NEMA as far as the manufacture of equipment. Materials and equipment seem capable of tolerating a lot of abuse with regard to installation (mal)practices. As a result, you don't see a lot of "hats on the ground". If you tried to build your own bridge, the much lower engineering margins are likely to reveal themselves when you drive across.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
=t-bird;1700141Why is there such a lax attitude concerning General Contractors and unlicensed handymen doing electrical work without proper training?

I'd think that insurers wouldnt allow unlicensed electrical work on commercial properties; alas, I'm not an insurer. I used to do hotel maintenance and we did a plethora of electrical work. I'm sure I did some of it wrong by code. I did reference the NEC and licensed electricians then, and always left it better than it was. The thought that my mistake could injure or kill someone, or in a 248 room hotel, several someones, was always on my conscience.

Door locks, plumbing, and pools/spas were similarly thought-provoking. Anything that involved life/safety. and the words "I can't fix that, call a professional" crossed my lips numerous times, much to the dismay of mgmt.

Do what you want in your own home; in someone else's, the stakes are much higher.
 

StarCat

Industrial Engineering Tech
Location
Moab, UT USA
Occupation
Imdustrial Engineering Technician - HVACR Electrical and Mechanical Systems
Administration vs. Control

Administration vs. Control

People simply are not getting the difference between administration and control.
Administration is desirable, control is not.
Control leads exactly to what Orwell wrote and warned about and its showing up in spades right now with all the surveillance tek that we also don't need.
No sane society needs such things. Surveillance is for psychopaths.
A lot of people have gotten into attempting to limit things that they have no right to control.
The control element and the unsavory forces that drive it have gotten out of hand.
The education system is a gross failure and by design. The system does not teach people about how the layperson should deal with electricity. Instead people are given all manner of gadgets that work in fact worse than ever. Many of these technologies aside from being useless are dangerous to operate.
This fact is being buried by the money interests. Wireless microwave tech is at the top of this dangerous list that persons who are supposed to have intelligence are turning a blind eye to and in fact are embracing to the hilt.
Also, contrary to popular belief....people have the right to kill themselves regardless of what any statute says. The boundary is in protecting people in public places from others stupidity and where to draw the lines.....then in Engineering things that actually do improve safety without compromising reliability or stability of critical systems.
There are a lot of psychopaths and profiteers in the mix there.
The attempt to micromanage public stupidity and ignorance will and is failing big time because the premise is unworkable.
The other thing thats not being gotten is the noted trend is not sustainable and has already started to break down in unexpected ways.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I myself don't like a lot of the regulations we have, not just in our industry but in general. It sort of seems to go against the main principles that were behind the constitution, big brother has to tell us what we can and can't do, or at least how to be able to do it. But yet we need regulations to be fair to everyone, and to set standards so that potential litigation can be better controlled when something does go wrong.

It is a double edged sword.
 

kenman215

Senior Member
Location
albany, ny
I myself don't like a lot of the regulations we have, not just in our industry but in general. It sort of seems to go against the main principles that were behind the constitution, big brother has to tell us what we can and can't do, or at least how to be able to do it. But yet we need regulations to be fair to everyone, and to set standards so that potential litigation can be better controlled when something does go wrong.

It is a double edged sword.

It's a double edge sword that all of society balances on. It's always going to lean one way or the other, but probably best it leans to the side of over regulation versus none at all.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I just got back from a vacation in Cancun, Mexico. There is virtually no effective regulation of electrical installations there. It's a nightmare... I tried taking pictures from the bus as we drove through town, but none of them came out, the bus windows were too dirty. Even at the fancy expensive resort I stayed at, 1/2 of the switches in my room did nothing (apparent).
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I just got back from a vacation in Cancun, Mexico. There is virtually no effective regulation of electrical installations there. It's a nightmare... I tried taking pictures from the bus as we drove through town, but none of them came out, the bus windows were too dirty. Even at the fancy expensive resort I stayed at, 1/2 of the switches in my room did nothing (apparent).
Which illustrates an interesting point. Despite all its hazards electricity has to be one of the most forgiving forms of energy we use or have used.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Strip a mile in our work boots.....

Strip a mile in our work boots.....

If you've been the spark called in after a fire blamed erroneously on electrical work....

If you've had maintenance men mess with your work....then not 'fess up to you.....

If you've had hacks trim out your job....then had the customer blame you for the results

If you've been beat out of a bid by unlicensed fly by nights......who flew out with that last flight of flippers....

If you've been left powerless w/o recourse for the above.....

Then came to the realization the npfa is using all the collected stats against the electrical trade.......for the special interest groups who basically make all the changes

Then you've lived the inherent cognitive dissonance of bureaucracy w/o enforcement ,the nfpa modus operandi

~RJ~
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I just got back from a vacation in Cancun, Mexico. There is virtually no effective regulation of electrical installations there. It's a nightmare... I tried taking pictures from the bus as we drove through town, but none of them came out, the bus windows were too dirty. Even at the fancy expensive resort I stayed at, 1/2 of the switches in my room did nothing (apparent).
How active is the legal system there compared to in the US when it comes to domestic type issues vs criminal issues.

If you've been the spark called in after a fire blamed erroneously on electrical work....

If you've had maintenance men mess with your work....then not 'fess up to you.....

If you've had hacks trim out your job....then had the customer blame you for the results

If you've been beat out of a bid by unlicensed fly by nights......who flew out with that last flight of flippers....

If you've been left powerless w/o recourse for the above.....

Then came to the realization the npfa is using all the collected stats against the electrical trade.......for the special interest groups who basically make all the changes

Then you've lived the inherent cognitive dissonance of bureaucracy w/o enforcement ,the nfpa modus operandi

~RJ~
If it weren't for the insurance industry along with the US citizen attitude of it must be someone else's fault, we very well may not have what we have now for codes and standards in a lot of areas.
 
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