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Thread: 2020 Fire Fighter Disco 1 & 2 Family Dwellings 230.85

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  1. #1
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    2020 Fire Fighter Disco 1 & 2 Family Dwellings 230.85

    New proposed section 230.85 requires a Emergency Disconnect for service conductors of 1 & 2 family dwellings located readily accessible outside the dwelling.

    Know as the "Fire Fighter Disconnected"

    Here is the language...

    230.85 Emergency Disconnects(s)
    For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:

    (1) Service disconnect(s) marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT

    (2) Meter disconnect(s) installed per 230.83(#) and marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    (3) Other than listed disconnect switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) on the supply side of each service disconnect that are suitable for use as service equipment and marked : EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    Markings shall comply with 110.21(B)

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    There's one local poco i work with that's had that policy for years

    and they've a few FF's

    ~RJ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortcircuit2 View Post
    New proposed section 230.85 requires a Emergency Disconnect for service conductors of 1 & 2 family dwellings located readily accessible outside the dwelling.

    Know as the "Fire Fighter Disconnected"

    Here is the language...

    230.85 Emergency Disconnects(s)
    For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:

    (1) Service disconnect(s) marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT

    (2) Meter disconnect(s) installed per 230.83(#) and marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    (3) Other than listed disconnect switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) on the supply side of each service disconnect that are suitable for use as service equipment and marked : EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    Markings shall comply with 110.21(B)
    I hope it does not go through or requires put in a box that only firefighters can access...
    imagine the burglar scenario... turn off firefighter disconnects for home, no alarm, take time breaking in...
    same with murderers or rapists... turn off firefighters disconnect..no video gear to catch me...lol..

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    I dislike this one. If it were required many would put a big old lock on it anyway.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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    The PI called for that for all services, but the panel action limited to one and two family dwellings. As a former first responder, I think access to kill the power to commercial is more critical than for one and two family dwellings, especially since some utilities remotely kill the power on a call from the FD where the dwelling units have smart meters
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The PI called for that for all services, but the panel action limited to one and two family dwellings. As a former first responder, I think access to kill the power to commercial is more critical than for one and two family dwellings, especially since some utilities remotely kill the power on a call from the FD where the dwelling units have smart meters
    We have smart meters here, but it is my understanding that they do not have contactors in them and they cannot be shut off remotely. At least that is the way it is here. The larger the service the less likely it is that it can be shut off remotely due the the cost of a contactor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by packersparky View Post
    We have smart meters here, but it is my understanding that they do not have contactors in them and they cannot be shut off remotely. At least that is the way it is here. The larger the service the less likely it is that it can be shut off remotely due the the cost of a contactor.
    Well smart meters can have a internal disco. It may be a option though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by packersparky View Post
    We have smart meters here, but it is my understanding that they do not have contactors in them and they cannot be shut off remotely. At least that is the way it is here. The larger the service the less likely it is that it can be shut off remotely due the the cost of a contactor.
    The meters used for dwelling services by both utilities in our area have the contactor and one of them will do a remote disconnect when the FD calls in for a response to a fire. As you get to larger services, you have CT meters and they cannot have a contactor as the actual power does not flow through the meter. That is why, it is my opinion, that an outside disconnect is more important to the first responders on larger services.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamjamma View Post
    I hope it does not go through or requires put in a box that only firefighters can access...
    imagine the burglar scenario... turn off firefighter disconnects for home, no alarm, take time breaking in...
    same with murderers or rapists... turn off firefighters disconnect..no video gear to catch me...lol..
    real disco's are 110.25 compliant (lockable)

    only a minority of meters are locked

    meter's are easily yanked Adam

    ~RJ~

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    I agree but they want a disconnect... I mean, to yank meters in my area in Jamaica takes a wire cutter, cut the flimsy lock, lift panel, and pull meter... think any fire fighter could do that and cut power so only other concern is the Solar or Battery stuff... but, because of criminals, do not really want those areas able to be easily cut or disconnected.

    Want a criminal to at least have to work at it to break into my property... not simply take a screwdriver, twist the lock and pull stuff ...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

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