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Thread: 2020 Fire Fighter Disco 1 & 2 Family Dwellings 230.85

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    South of Bawstin
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    2020 Fire Fighter Disco 1 & 2 Family Dwellings 230.85

    New proposed section 230.85 requires a Emergency Disconnect for service conductors of 1 & 2 family dwellings located readily accessible outside the dwelling.

    Know as the "Fire Fighter Disconnected"

    Here is the language...

    230.85 Emergency Disconnects(s)
    For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:

    (1) Service disconnect(s) marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT

    (2) Meter disconnect(s) installed per 230.83(#) and marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    (3) Other than listed disconnect switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) on the supply side of each service disconnect that are suitable for use as service equipment and marked : EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    Markings shall comply with 110.21(B)

  2. #2
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    There's one local poco i work with that's had that policy for years

    and they've a few FF's

    ~RJ~

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortcircuit2 View Post
    New proposed section 230.85 requires a Emergency Disconnect for service conductors of 1 & 2 family dwellings located readily accessible outside the dwelling.

    Know as the "Fire Fighter Disconnected"

    Here is the language...

    230.85 Emergency Disconnects(s)
    For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:

    (1) Service disconnect(s) marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT

    (2) Meter disconnect(s) installed per 230.83(#) and marked as follows: EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    (3) Other than listed disconnect switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) on the supply side of each service disconnect that are suitable for use as service equipment and marked : EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT

    Markings shall comply with 110.21(B)
    I hope it does not go through or requires put in a box that only firefighters can access...
    imagine the burglar scenario... turn off firefighter disconnects for home, no alarm, take time breaking in...
    same with murderers or rapists... turn off firefighters disconnect..no video gear to catch me...lol..

  4. #4
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    New Jersey
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    I dislike this one. If it were required many would put a big old lock on it anyway.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  5. #5
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    Illinois
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    The PI called for that for all services, but the panel action limited to one and two family dwellings. As a former first responder, I think access to kill the power to commercial is more critical than for one and two family dwellings, especially since some utilities remotely kill the power on a call from the FD where the dwelling units have smart meters
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The PI called for that for all services, but the panel action limited to one and two family dwellings. As a former first responder, I think access to kill the power to commercial is more critical than for one and two family dwellings, especially since some utilities remotely kill the power on a call from the FD where the dwelling units have smart meters
    We have smart meters here, but it is my understanding that they do not have contactors in them and they cannot be shut off remotely. At least that is the way it is here. The larger the service the less likely it is that it can be shut off remotely due the the cost of a contactor.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by packersparky View Post
    We have smart meters here, but it is my understanding that they do not have contactors in them and they cannot be shut off remotely. At least that is the way it is here. The larger the service the less likely it is that it can be shut off remotely due the the cost of a contactor.
    Well smart meters can have a internal disco. It may be a option though.

  8. #8
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    Well smart meters can have a internal disco. It may be a option though.
    I understand that they can have a contactor, but around here they do not. They cannot be disconnected remotely.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Jamaica and london
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    Thought of using a box like utilities use here in UK to limit number of people can access the box but the keys are so common that you still end up with thieves having access to the disconnects to break into the property easier...

    is the reasoning simply imply to reduce the problems of the solar backfeeds? Or is it to fully disconnect? Because with the different backfeed methods combined with smart meters and properties like I deal with in Jamaica, can see real problems in the disconnects being in one accessible spot unless we now require the panels to be on an outside wall... disconnects on outside of that wall, panel on inside of that wall...

    really watching this stuff as most properties in Jamaica are setup more like trailers than US homes, with the meter on the property line and an underground usually run to building to an inside panel box... though sometimes run overhead.. older homes have meters on building but POCO requiring meters at property lines due to theft and dogs..lol...

  10. #10
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    I use meter/mains when i can.

    It's a safer and better job, jmho

    consider how 408.3 (2) (2017) factors in


    (2) Service Panelboards, Switchboards, and Switchgear. Barri‐
    ers shall be placed in all service panelboards, switchboards, and
    switchgear such that no uninsulated, ungrounded service
    busbar or service terminal is exposed to inadvertent contact by
    persons or maintenance equipment while servicing load termi‐
    nations.
    ~RJ~

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