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Thread: Staring down the 690.12(B)(2) tunnel, is that light at the end a way out or a train?

  1. #1
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    Staring down the 690.12(B)(2) tunnel, is that light at the end a way out or a train?

    January 1, 2019, is quickly getting closer and pretty soon 690.12(B)(2) is going to be applied. It seems like the only options are going to be some kind of module-level device that can be operated remotely by the inverter. Not many options out there right now other than SolarEdge and microinverters.

    I don't see any sign of the UL listing option in 690.12(B)(2)(1) providing any relief before the end of the year, and 690.12(B)(2)(3) would be hard to implement, although not impossible. That leaves us with 690.12(B)(2)(2), and on larger roof-mounted C&I projects it's going to be challenging. Some inverter manufacturers are partnering with MLPE manufacturers, but I have not seen any of them announce that their systems are listed for RSS yet. On the upside at least we can go back to putting inverters in the shade instead of out in the array.

    What are the chances AHJs waive 690.12(B)(2) because there are not many commercially available solutions yet and stick with what we are currently doing?

    On another note, optimizers that take more than one module will probably fail RSS since it looks like most, if not all, will put the modules in series and that will exceed the 80V max RSS voltage. That's going to make larger systems even more costly.

  2. #2
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    I just got pricing from Tigo ts4-f which is under 5c per watt depending on module size which can use sunspec plc with sma and others.

    I will reach out to the vendor and ask your question about listing.

  3. #3
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    I heard from someone who should know, but I have not verified, and they said that the MLPE and inverter have to be listed together for RSS since shutting down the inverter has to shut down the array voltage. The SMA Tigo combination is going through listing and might be through by now. But nothing about it up front on the SMA website and I would think they would be promoting this if it were ready. They are still promoting the remote disconnect for 2014 RSS.

  4. #4
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    Look at the core 1 page, it's got a section there and meets the sunspec protocol but I'm not sure it's been rolled up in a UL listing yet. I just saw this earlier today but don't have it up right now. Either way it meets the performance requirements of the other section, I would argue. No doubt they're marketing this in commercial first since the requirement will be harder to meet without ts4f.

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  5. #5
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    Vendor is probably recovering from SPI (or is it this week?) but I'd imagine they consider this year a development period to ramp up production for the 2019 demand. I finally got a quote for a 4mw order meaning they're just now able to fulfill large orders.

    Hopefully they put upgradable firmware in these ts4s so that the communication can be fixed in the field to avoid the SolarEdge nightmare.

    Do you have any numbers or white papers for insurance carrier costs with and without rapid shutdown? Some customers are asking about this and im not sure how to address

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 310 BLAZE IT View Post
    Vendor is probably recovering from SPI (or is it this week?) but I'd imagine they consider this year a development period to ramp up production for the 2019 demand. I finally got a quote for a 4mw order meaning they're just now able to fulfill large orders.

    Hopefully they put upgradable firmware in these ts4s so that the communication can be fixed in the field to avoid the SolarEdge nightmare.

    Do you have any numbers or white papers for insurance carrier costs with and without rapid shutdown? Some customers are asking about this and im not sure how to address
    Yes, SPI is this week. I have not heard anything about insurers showing a preference for any particular equipment used in a PV system. What I have heard from the insurance industry is that if firefighters decide not to fight fires in structures with PV systems then they will take that into account when making the rate structure. So they don't really care about the equipment as long as the AHJ accepts it but they care a lot about what firefighters will do.

    The TS4-F should work with any inverter that implements SunSpec to control them. The question is then does each inverter model need a separate RSS listing to work with the TS4-F?

  7. #7
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    Might be notable that it's only a feature for the new core 1 model (not sure why it wasn't called core 2)

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