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Thread: License to Survive

  1. #11
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    Who's going to advocate a pseudo professional here?

    Let me put it this way, who's willing to go under the knife via some illiterate physician who could not pass muster?

    ~RJ~

  2. #12
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    I think my post got lost. I did use the term king for the governor. I also used the term sanctuary city/state which we are. I also used the term illegals and the term prisoners. The last two have been talked about in employment ideas. Guess not PC.

  3. #13
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    On 9/26/18 EC&M pumped out another related article:
    Recent Electrical Trade School Grad Can’t Find Job, Takes Matters into His Own Hands.


    The article describes a 21-year old Houston man with a cardboard sign at a busy intersection.

    In my State people holding cardboard signs are making a killing at freeway off ramps. It doesn't matter what the sign says. After seeing them fight each other off for the territory, the cash donations are apparently up to $200.- per hour in my area.

    This is a career changer. The cash pours in as they appear to suffer miserably in the hot sun, especially holding a cute puppy in their arms. Waiting behind other cars, I've seen these beggars get cash, bottled water, hats, job offers, and love letters. These jokers can probably make more cash in one day than some Churches collect in a month.

    The other killing is made by private Trade Schools. Students rush in, --assuming construction-labor shortage = demand for skilled labor--, as many developers and contractors demand less regulation, and cheaper labor. Why pay for Trade-School certificates, if its cheaper to exploit unregulated laborers. By crying for deregulation of labor, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and may get relaxed regulations.

    In the face of general contractors exploiting laborers for all trades, the task of lobbying local governments to increase regulation is a costly uphill battle. For a substantial fraction of the year, organized-labor journeymen are attempting unemployment subsistence while their revolving apprentices (unskilled labor) remain mostly employed.
    Last edited by ramsy; 09-27-18 at 09:23 PM.
    Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

  4. #14
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    [QUOTE=ramsy;1946143]On 9/26/18 EC&M pumped out another related article:
    Recent Electrical Trade School Grad Can’t Find Job, Takes Matters into His Own Hands.


    The article describes a 21-year old Houston man with a cardboard sign at a busy intersection.

    In my State people holding cardboard signs are making a killing at freeway off ramps. It doesn't matter what the sign says. After seeing them fight each other off for the territory, the cash donations are apparently up to $200.- per hour in my area.

    This is a career changer. The cash pours in as they appear to suffer miserably in the hot sun, especially holding a cute puppy in their arms. Waiting behind other cars, I've seen these beggars get cash, bottled water, hats, job offers, and love letters. These jokers can probably make more cash in one day than some Churches collect in a month.
    And old timer once told me "some people work harder at NOT working, than actually working" , which is usually the case w/ such sorts

    The other killing is made by private Trade Schools. Students rush in, --assuming construction-labor shortage = demand for skilled labor--, as many developers and contractors demand less regulation, and cheaper labor. Why pay for Trade-School certificates, if its cheaper to exploit unregulated laborers. By crying for deregulation of labor, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and may get relaxed regulations.

    In the face of general contractors exploiting laborers for all trades, the task of lobbying local governments to increase regulation is a costly uphill battle. For a substantial fraction of the year, organized-labor journeymen are attempting unemployment subsistence while their revolving apprentices (unskilled labor) remain mostly employed.
    The truth is, construction is the first casualty in boom bust cycles.

    Right now, we're on the high side , in demand.

    Construction Labor Shortage Creates Increasingly Lucrative Career Paths.......one of many similar articles.

    IMHO, this isn't time to dumb it down for more help ,because the GC's ,PM's looking to exploit skilled labor have the ear of legislation , it's time to cull the herd of those entrants who aren't viable.

    they don't understand that the worthy are looking at the long run , these are serious players ,not transients

    Anything short of this dilutes the intergrity of the trade , as well as it's consumer value and personal gain joining up within it.

    How many youngsters would (as they say) be 'down w/that'?

    ~RJ~

  5. #15
    And, in the good news department, there is a 18 year old starting his apprenticeship with the electrical contractor doing the remodeling work in one of my buildings, hard working kid, starting in the IBEW apprenticeship program, and a 22 year old young lady starting with the plumbing contractor doing work here, I'm proud of both of them.
    Mt. Falls, Va.
    "Not a sermon, just a thought"
    A licensed electrically-related individual

  6. #16
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    Aug 2004
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    Northern illinois
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    Personally, I don't have an issue with what some are calling "dumbing down". It really isn't dumbing down so much as making the requirements to get in the trade closer to what they really need to be to safely do the work. There is no reason why it takes a whole lot of training or experience to do certain kinds of electrical work. You really think someone needs to be a licensed apprentice to carry conduit around? or to drill holes in studs? or even to mount boxes to studs? there are plenty of simple electrical tasks that someone with little training or experience could learn to do quite well very fast. why some people think you need to have a license and a 4 year apprenticeship to do those simple tasks escapes me.

    code questions are not an issue for the vast majority of electrical work if it is handled properly. the guy doing the labor does not need to know how to size a complex feeder if his job is to drill holes in studs for Romex. All he needs to know for that is a few very simple rules about where the holes should be located and how to use a drill.
    Bob

  7. #17
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    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    Personally, I don't have an issue with what some are calling "dumbing down". It really isn't dumbing down so much as making the requirements to get in the trade closer to what they really need to be to safely do the work. There is no reason why it takes a whole lot of training or experience to do certain kinds of electrical work. You really think someone needs to be a licensed apprentice to carry conduit around? or to drill holes in studs? or even to mount boxes to studs? there are plenty of simple electrical tasks that someone with little training or experience could learn to do quite well very fast. why some people think you need to have a license and a 4 year apprenticeship to do those simple tasks escapes me.

    code questions are not an issue for the vast majority of electrical work if it is handled properly. the guy doing the labor does not need to know how to size a complex feeder if his job is to drill holes in studs for Romex. All he needs to know for that is a few very simple rules about where the holes should be located and how to use a drill.
    I agree. Some of this "red tape" by the powers that be certainly doesn't help. I am licensed in 3 states, been in the trade for 15 ish years, and there are still a bunch of states that won't let me get a license there. Another example: the solar company I have done work with had some opportunities in mass. Unfortunately they require journey man electricians to haul solar panels and ballast block. Good job guys.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  8. #18
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    Mar 2003
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    New England
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    Can someone summarize all this gibberish because I sure can't figure out what's being discussed here.

  9. #19
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    New York
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    I didn't read the article, but my take from the op post is, due to lack of trained workers the powers that be would like to add/change legislation to circumvent laws allowing any person to work as an electrician. Other people in reply telling what they see in their areas. Other people then brought up mundane jobs could be done by brain dead at a lower cost. Other people brought up this has gone from a skilled craft, master, jw, app, helper, to just a job and in so doing will bring all of our pay scale down. One brain running 4-5 zombies, 1 mounts box, 1 run pipe, 1 pull wire, 1 termination, 1 trim, 1 lights great for the company if no one gets sick because they aren't interchangeable. Others prefer a true mechanic that knows much more and can be used anywhere; of course you pay more for that.
    Basically it's all about the money.

  10. #20
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    May 2018
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    Jamaica and london
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    for some of us it is also about the 4 or five years working for sometimes jerk bosses to get your paperwork then you have to move for some reason before you get the papers and have to start all over... Would like to see a way to pass the writtens and then get the job time... rather than getting to the point that you start saying I am too old to go through the working for others when no one will take what I have done as experience because all my old bosses have died from cancer or old age or etc so no one can sign off... Not asking that the tests be dumbed down but asking that we recognise that most of what I need to know to do what I do I already know and the paperwork, while letting me do more is not really going to be having me do more because I will probably stay doing what I have done for around 35 years, home repairs... While keeping up with the codes like I have been trying to in my line of work anyway..it is just a piece of paper to me...saying I know what I have been doing correctly already for years...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

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