Adding a receptacle to an existing ungrounded receptacle circuit?

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olc

Senior Member
The code is clear on how to replace ungrounded receptacles.
But can a receptacle be added to an existing ungrounded receptacle circuit?
If so what are the grounding requirements?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Look at 250.130(C)

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch
Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor
of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension
shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system
as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates
(4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of another
branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
circuit originates
(5) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
within the service equipment enclosure
(6) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar
within the service equipment enclosure
Informational Note: See 406.4(D) for the use of a groundfault
circuit-interrupting type of receptacle.
 

olc

Senior Member
Thanks.

If I were to run something back to the panelbd or to some grounded circuit I just would run a new circuit.

Can a new ungrounded receptacle be connected to an existing ungrounded receptacle circuit.

Example - connect to a nearby receptacle using wiremold to add a receptacle in the room. Assume the existing wiring is BX.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Can a new ungrounded receptacle be connected to an existing ungrounded receptacle circuit.
A branch circuit extension to add a new receptacle outlet requires that the receptacle be a grounding-type receptacle. Does 210.12 come into play, I.E., is this a dwelling?

Example - connect to a nearby receptacle using wiremold to add a receptacle in the room. Assume the existing wiring is BX.
BX (Armored Cable made before the bonding strip requirement of the 1950s) was a grounding means if part of a complete equipment grounding path. If the BX is part of a complete equipment grounding path in your example, and the BX is undisturbed as part of the circuit extension, then its "as installed grounding means" status is still intact.
 

olc

Senior Member
To summarize:
New receptacles need to be grounding type.
The ground needs to be connected to the circuit equipment grounding conductor.
If extending an ungrounded receptacle circuit, the new equipment grounding conductor needs to be connected as listed in 250.130 C. In this list I do not see the option of connecting to the BX cable/box system no matter the condition of the existing.



My application is a church built in the 1950's.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
My application is a church built in the 1950's.
I submit, your first best meaningful answer will be from the electrical inspector who works the geographic location that the church is in. I've posted my perspective, above, but many here will disagree. The reason I suggest the local AHJ (or their representative) is because, in my opinion, and experience, the real world acceptance of existing wiring method out in the field, is different than the strong opinion, here. Your answer, from your local AHJ is the only one that really matters for that church.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
In this list I do not see the option of connecting to the BX cable/box system no matter the condition of the existing.

I agree with your point, I believe Al is letting his personal experiences cloud his reading of that code section. His AHJ does not read it that way, but many many others do.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I submit, your first best meaningful answer will be from the electrical inspector who works the geographic location that the church is in. I've posted my perspective, above, but many here will disagree. The reason I suggest the local AHJ (or their representative) is because, in my opinion, and experience, the real world acceptance of existing wiring method out in the field, is different than the strong opinion, here. Your answer, from your local AHJ is the only one that really matters for that church.

I submit doing it to code and safely is all that matters here.

Even when an AHJ allows a violation the installer is forever on the hook for it.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I agree with your point, I believe Al is letting his personal experiences cloud his reading of that code section. His AHJ does not read it that way, but many many others do.

I submit doing it to code and safely is all that matters here.

Even when an AHJ allows a violation the installer is forever on the hook for it.
I may be flat out wrong. But other's here have stated real world experience similar to mine in this thread. I am definitely not alone.

"and safely" is a little more subjective than the language of the Code and has not been the thrust of my stance.
 
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