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Thread: Equipment Grounding Requuirements for premises lacking equipment grounding conductors

  1. #11
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    RJ,

    I like your GFCI exception for the ceiling fan, but I find one flaw...

    A ceiling fan is an appliance. One may or may not have a light kit attached, but it ain’t no light fixture.

    I do not see any exception for no EGC using GFCI protection for other equipment in other articles. Yes, light fixtures are equipment, but lighting is usually separated by itself IME from other equipment when using the definition.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    RJ,

    I like your GFCI exception for the ceiling fan, but I find one flaw...

    A ceiling fan is an appliance. One may or may not have a light kit attached, but it ain’t no light fixture.

    I do not see any exception for no EGC using GFCI protection for other equipment in other articles. Yes, light fixtures are equipment, but lighting is usually separated by itself IME from other equipment when using the definition.
    And you may be entirely right about it being viewed as an appliance Jumper

    so we're left with a high ceiling>

    250.110 (1) Where within 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically or 1.5 m (5 ft) hori‐
    zontally of ground or grounded metal objects and subject
    to contact by persons
    a ceiling fan with some sort of heating element , along w/'special permission' (i have no idea what they're referring to here?)>

    250.110 Exception No. 1: If exempted by special permission, the metal frame of
    electrically heated appliances that have the frame permanently and
    effectively insulated from ground shall not be required to be grounded.
    or a double insulated fan (unlikely)>

    250.110 Exception No. 3:Listed equipment protected by a system of double insu‐
    lation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be connected to the
    equipment grounding conductor. Where such a system is employed, the
    equipment shall be distinctively marked.
    At some point, especially considering future work, an EGC would most likley be the economical approach

    The many methods in 250 would be what i'd encourage considered.

    ~RJ~

  3. #13
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    So to take this a little further, I read 250.110, 1 through 6, not as individual exceptions for the EGC requirement but rather as if any of them apply we need the EGC. Lets say our ceiling fan does not have a light kit just to eliminate the luminary GFCI allowance debate. Lets say the fan is more than 8' vertically and 5' horizontally but is supported by a metal junction box bolted to steel in the ceiling. Even though 250.110, 1, would say we don't need an EGC number 3 would?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by romex jockey View Post



    At some point, especially considering future work, an EGC would most likley be the economical approach

    The many methods in 250 would be what i'd encourage considered.

    ~RJ~
    I agree.

    Or we fudge it and call it a light fixture with a motor attached and use your GFCI route.

    I am good with either.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by graino View Post
    So to take this a little further, I read 250.110, 1 through 6, not as individual exceptions for the EGC requirement but rather as if any of them apply we need the EGC. Lets say our ceiling fan does not have a light kit just to eliminate the luminary GFCI allowance debate. Lets say the fan is more than 8' vertically and 5' horizontally but is supported by a metal junction box bolted to steel in the ceiling. Even though 250.110, 1, would say we don't need an EGC number 3 would?
    http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=180738
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

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