What little faith I had left in the trade is gone

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electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Being an employee with standards, integrity and half a brain is hard. I generally have no say/input on how most jobs are going to be done. I just show up, get the scope, and working with whatever materials they give me make it work. I did a generator install yesterday. It was a hack job, period. The plan was to run pvc on a landscape timber that was flush with the surface of the ground. Through that pvc we were going to run 4/3 romex that we were running through the basement. Of course I protested and of course I was promptly overruled by "executive decision". So I ran sch 40 pvc and romex. But I stripped the jacket so it's ok. :roll: This isn't the first instance of blatantly ignoring the code and other foolishness.

I asked the other guys if this is how they normally do these and they said yes. So it was an illegal hack job that normally gets passed by incompetent inspectors while teaching the younger guys that it's ok.

I thought I had found a company that shared similar values etc. I was wrong. Sadly, this is one of the better companies that I've found. This is why I tell my kids to stay as far away from the trades as possible.

I'm just done trying. :thumbsdown:
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I totally agree and I'm where you're at, the vast majority of electricians are hacks. A license means nothing, it's a piece of toilet paper as far as I'm concerned.
 

kenman215

Senior Member
Location
albany, ny
Being an employee with standards, integrity and half a brain is hard. I generally have no say/input on how most jobs are going to be done. I just show up, get the scope, and working with whatever materials they give me make it work. I did a generator install yesterday. It was a hack job, period. The plan was to run pvc on a landscape timber that was flush with the surface of the ground. Through that pvc we were going to run 4/3 romex that we were running through the basement. Of course I protested and of course I was promptly overruled by "executive decision". So I ran sch 40 pvc and romex. But I stripped the jacket so it's ok. :roll: This isn't the first instance of blatantly ignoring the code and other foolishness.

I asked the other guys if this is how they normally do these and they said yes. So it was an illegal hack job that normally gets passed by incompetent inspectors while teaching the younger guys that it's ok.

I thought I had found a company that shared similar values etc. I was wrong. Sadly, this is one of the better companies that I've found. This is why I tell my kids to stay as far away from the trades as possible.

I'm just done trying. :thumbsdown:

I've been where you are, as most of us have. My advice is to keep searching for a company that you can be proud to work for. It make time some time to find one, might result in a dollar or two less an hour or some extra drive time, but you strike me as the kind of person who would rather do a better job for a little less in your pocket. Besides, it looks really good in an interview when your reason for leaving your last job was because you refused to do unsafe, non-code compliant work.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
...it looks really good in an interview when your reason for leaving your last job was because you refused to do unsafe, non-code compliant work.
Not necessarily. Your interviewer only has your word for it and you could be totally making it up to make yourself look good. I have had stints of unemployment and I made use of counseling services and job seekers' clubs during those times. A frequently recurring theme from every source was the advice to never go overtly negative on a former employer.
 

kenman215

Senior Member
Location
albany, ny
True, but if the message is conveyed with more of an emphasis on valuing safe work practices then dogging a previous employer, you'd have a hard time convincing me it would come across negatively...

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augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Not necessarily. Your interviewer only has your word for it and you could be totally making it up to make yourself look good. I have had stints of unemployment and I made use of counseling services and job seekers' clubs during those times. A frequently recurring theme from every source was the advice to never go overtly negative on a former employer.

I agree. Concentrate on what you have to offer. Your former employer was o.k., he just didn't have the work to challenge your full potential.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
True, but if the message is conveyed with more of an emphasis on valuing safe work practices then dogging a previous employer, you'd have a hard time convincing me it would come across negatively...

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If you mention a specific former employer and accuse them of being hacks, it is poison in an interview. I know because I did it and lost out on a job I really wanted. I had good reason to be negative on my former employer (I could tell stories over several beers about my terrible experiences working for that... guy) but it didn't matter.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Being an employee with standards, integrity and half a brain is hard.

Indeed, it is.

I generally have no say/input on how most jobs are going to be done.

That is quite the opposite experience I've had, tho I've worked for sole proprietors and not a big company. There are some things that my bosses have been extremely... thorough (some would call it anal) about, and other things it's like "you figure it out" [translation: get it done, dont tell me what you did]. My 08 NEC has been read and thumbed thru more than any other book Ive owned, on my own.

When I did v/d/v, I got complete control of the job in short order (<6 months). I specced the materials, did estimates, was responsible for my crew and completing the job. Doing electrical now, it is humbling sometimes to be treated like I am completely green (which I'm not far from) sometimes, and others, like I'm a master with 40 years experience.


I just show up, get the scope, and working with whatever materials they give me make it work. I did a generator install yesterday. It was a hack job, period. The plan was to run pvc on a landscape timber that was flush with the surface of the ground.

It would be a very rare case that I would attach conduit to what I consider a non-permanent structure (such as landscaping timber). My current boss would have my backside if I even suggested something like this.

Through that pvc we were going to run 4/3 romex that we were running through the basement. Of course I protested and of course I was promptly overruled by "executive decision". So I ran sch 40 pvc and romex. But I stripped the jacket so it's ok. :roll: This isn't the first instance of blatantly ignoring the code and other foolishness.

Tho VA has somewhat relaxed codes compared to much of the US, running NM-B in conduit outside is not allowed here either. I guess a $10 j-box and switching to THWN, and the time to make up that box, would have put the job in the red. :roll:

I asked the other guys if this is how they normally do these and they said yes. So it was an illegal hack job that normally gets passed by incompetent inspectors while teaching the younger guys that it's ok.

While a code violation, imho you have to have some perspective: no job will be 100% code compliant. There will always be something that violates code whether it be minor or major. If you overkill it, like I did early on, sure, you will have the Sistine Chapel when you are done, but you were commissioned for a wall painting. Sadly, few care about what's behind their walls; there are jobs we've done were the countertops cost more than the electrical.

I thought I had found a company that shared similar values etc. I was wrong. Sadly, this is one of the better companies that I've found. This is why I tell my kids to stay as far away from the trades as possible.

I'm just done trying. :thumbsdown:

I will always tilt at that windmill, because it's in my nature. We can do better. Sure, there are days, many days, where I want to throw up my hands and say [expletive deleted] because of things like you mention.

My dad retired at 60 as a master carpenter, class A contractor. I do not live in the same world he grew up in. Do your best, fight the fights you can, and at the end of the day, if I can sleep knowing my work was sound, that's all I ask. Tonight I will sleep well. Maybe not tomorrow, but tonight....
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
Stay somewhere long enough and get your own crew. Then you can do things your way as long as the cost and timeframe is reasonable.
 

kenman215

Senior Member
Location
albany, ny
If you mention a specific former employer and accuse them of being hacks, it is poison in an interview. I know because I did it and lost out on a job I really wanted. I had good reason to be negative on my former employer (I could tell stories over several beers about my terrible experiences working for that... guy) but it didn't matter.
I've always believed that it's often more important how things are said then content of what you're saying.

I was at a period in my life where I was second guessing whether or not I wanted to be an electrician. I interviewed for a postion in a chip fab plant. Prequisites included a bachelor's in engineering and 3-5 yrs experience programming PLCs, neither of which I had. Three hours after the interview, I received a phone call, offering me the position.

When I went to HR to fill out some papework, I actually asked the director why they offered me the position. She said that it came down to my answer to one question they had asked: "Why should we hire you?"

Apparently the department head was very impressed with my answer of, "You shouldn't."

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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Don't lose faith. I would continue to make every attempt to do right things instead of concentrating on doing things right. If the company you're working for is paying you to do wrong things, go ahead and do it (unless it is dangerous or would cause injury or death), and take the pay check knowing that you actually know the right way to do it. It's not your license on the line it's theirs. Some day, when you open your own company, you'll understand that doing things right (in many cases) costs a few $$ more and you might not get a job because of it. Then, although you may not agree with their methods, you'll better understand why there are hacks out there.:cool:
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Unfortunately, the benchmark of overall trade integrity will forever and a day be the penchant of tax paid bureaucracy , be it ahj's nfpa, ul, cpsc, etc....

We've been loosing ground in my state as well, and i don't like it. One of my friendly compeditors is actively trying to drag me back into the local IAEI

His take is i'm like those non voters who do nothing but b*tch......

~RJ~
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Of course I protested and of course I was promptly overruled by "executive decision". This is why I tell my kids to stay as far away from the trades as possible.
It would be nice if changing professions solved the problem but it doesn't. There is no job that you can do that will not involve some of the same thing.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
It would be nice if changing professions solved the problem but it doesn't. There is no job that you can do that will not involve some of the same thing.

And this is nothing new, it has been the case since there was money, bosses and employees.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
try something different....

there are a lot of downsides to being a one man band,
but you might want to take a look at it, if you have never
tried it.

just a thought....
Scott was self employed for a long time, working for "the man" is a fairly new deal for him.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Being an employee with standards, integrity and half a brain is hard. I generally have no say/input on how most jobs are going to be done. I just show up, get the scope, and working with whatever materials they give me make it work. I did a generator install yesterday. It was a hack job, period. The plan was to run pvc on a landscape timber that was flush with the surface of the ground. Through that pvc we were going to run 4/3 romex that we were running through the basement. Of course I protested and of course I was promptly overruled by "executive decision". So I ran sch 40 pvc and romex. But I stripped the jacket so it's ok. :roll: This isn't the first instance of blatantly ignoring the code and other foolishness.

I asked the other guys if this is how they normally do these and they said yes. So it was an illegal hack job that normally gets passed by incompetent inspectors while teaching the younger guys that it's ok.

I thought I had found a company that shared similar values etc. I was wrong. Sadly, this is one of the better companies that I've found. This is why I tell my kids to stay as far away from the trades as possible.

I'm just done trying. :thumbsdown:

You do know you can refuse? Nothing is wrong with that minus the bare EGC which will corrode over time in what is known as a wet environment creating a fire/death hazard. Wrong in this world does not come from those who do wrong, but those who sit back and let it happen.

I dont blame you however. Reading that has me fired up, and yes I share the same views. The trade at times is a competition to the bottom. You should also see the POCO world... let me just say someone needs to be held legally accountable :rant:
 
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