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Thread: Equipment Grounding Requuirements for premises lacking equipment grounding conductors

  1. #1
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    Equipment Grounding Requuirements for premises lacking equipment grounding conductors

    I've been wresting with the equipment grounding conductor requirements listed in 250.110, 1 through 6. Specifically in an older home with two wire non-metallic sheathed cable minus any equipment grounding conductors. It appears as though an ungrounded two prong receptacle can be "legally" replaced with a GFCI receptacle for connecting cord and plug connected equipment requiring an EGC? Is this correct? If so what code article allows this? Secondly what about fixed in place equipment requiring an ECG when none are available? Let's take a specific example like a ceiling fan requiring an EGC. If none are available is an EGC still required? Must an EGC be routed to the equipment or is something like a Ground Fault Breaker a code compliant alternative? If so where is it allowed in the NEC?
    Thanks for any insights you can provide on this topic.

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    For receptacles, see 406.4(D)(2) in the 2017 or 406.3(D)(3) in older code editions.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

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    For equipment fastened in place see 250.134.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

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    Thanks for the reply Little Bill. I'm afraid I wasn't clear with my question though. When I look at 250.110, I see no exception for the need to provide an equipment grounding conductor for equipment that requires one if none are available at the outlet. Again to be specific if I am installing a ceiling fan and it is going to be within 8' vertically or 5' horizontally from a grounded surface am I allowed an alternative to getting an equipment grounding conductor to the fan, like GFCI protection? Thanks in advance for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graino View Post
    Thanks for the reply Little Bill. I'm afraid I wasn't clear with my question though. When I look at 250.110, I see no exception for the need to provide an equipment grounding conductor for equipment that requires one if none are available at the outlet. Again to be specific if I am installing a ceiling fan and it is going to be within 8' vertically or 5' horizontally from a grounded surface am I allowed an alternative to getting an equipment grounding conductor to the fan, like GFCI protection? Thanks in advance for your help.
    I know of no similar GFCI rule for equipment that exists for receptacle replacement.
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derek

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    Quote Originally Posted by graino View Post
    Thanks for the reply Little Bill. I'm afraid I wasn't clear with my question though. When I look at 250.110, I see no exception for the need to provide an equipment grounding conductor for equipment that requires one if none are available at the outlet. Again to be specific if I am installing a ceiling fan and it is going to be within 8' vertically or 5' horizontally from a grounded surface am I allowed an alternative to getting an equipment grounding conductor to the fan, like GFCI protection? Thanks in advance for your help.
    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    I know of no similar GFCI rule for equipment that exists for receptacle replacement.
    I agree with Jumper and would not hesitate to install a ceiling where no EGC exists. If you just feel the need, you could install a GFCI breaker for the circuit the fan will be on. But in an older house you run the risk of the neutral running all over the place (think grabbed for another hot somewhere) and wouldn't allow the GFCI to set/reset.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by graino View Post
    Thanks for the reply Little Bill. I'm afraid I wasn't clear with my question though. When I look at 250.110, I see no exception for the need to provide an equipment grounding conductor for equipment that requires one if none are available at the outlet. Again to be specific if I am installing a ceiling fan and it is going to be within 8' vertically or 5' horizontally from a grounded surface am I allowed an alternative to getting an equipment grounding conductor to the fan, like GFCI protection? Thanks in advance for your help.

    Yes ...

    410.44 Ex.3>>

    Exception No. 3: Where no equipment grounding conductor exists at
    the outlet, replacement luminaires that are GFCI protected shall not be
    required to be connected to an equipment grounding conductor.

    ~S~

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    Thank you Romex Jockey, at the risk of pressing my luck I would like to try to dig a little further, 410.44, exc.3, answered my original question about the ceiling light/fan. What about other appliances requiring an EGC in a premise lacking them? 410.44 specifically addressed luminaries. Again to be specific what about something like a hard wired garbage disposal? Are there exceptions for appliances like that or must I run an EGC? Thanks again, you guys have already been a huge help.

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    I would say 250.140 ex's for 'existing' is the only out Granio, others may find something to add.

    as an aside, 250.130 (B) ex 1 may be some help>

    Exception No. 1: As provided in 250.130(C), the equipment grounding
    conductor shall be permitted to be run separately from the circuit
    conductors.
    which would back us up to 250.120(C)>

    (C) Equipment Grounding Conductors Smaller Than 6 AWG.
    Where not routed with circuit conductors as permitted in
    250.130(C) and 250.134(B) Exception No. 2, equipment
    grounding conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be protected
    from physical damage by an identified raceway or cable armor
    unless installed within hollow spaces of the framing members
    of buildings or structures and where not subject to physical
    damage.
    then back to 250.130 (C) ,options 1-6, assuming (for sake of debate) a 2nd flr dishwasher install , #4 >, hoping to fish an egc in from another circuit avalable w/one.....

    (4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of
    another branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
    where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
    circuit originates
    ~RJ~

  10. #10
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    Thank you everyone, to sum it up it appears:
    • Cord and plug connected equipment, no problem, use GFCI protected receptacle.
    • Luminaries, not a problem, use GFCI breaker.
    • Everything else looks like we need to get an EGC to it unless it does not meet any of the requirements of 250.110, 1 through 6.

    ??????????????
    Thanks again.

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