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Thread: Table 220.88

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Chapel Hill, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    This is also true. I agree.

    NEC also say code book is just to basis design,minimun requirements, you can alway go further than what is the NEC mininum requirements are.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
    Of course, no one said you have to use the calculated load. That is just a minimum. I believe many of us on this forum tend to overdo our installations but we discuss what is code. As years go by it will usually reveal what doesn't work out hence the rewording of the NEC every 3 years. Calculations, however, have been pretty stable for some time.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    That is what I am saying!!! All electric restaurant will have a smaller service cable than not all electric restaurant. What I am missing???

    No. An all electric restaurant will require a larger service. Yes it may get more of a demand factor. You aren't really thinking about it correctly by just picking a kva value and treating them like the same thing.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Newark, NJ
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    No. An all electric restaurant will require a larger service. Yes it may get more of a demand factor. You aren't really thinking about it correctly by just picking a kva value and treating them like the same thing.
    Wait a minute, on my posted calculation all electric restaurant kva is smaller than not all electric restaurant kva. Therefore smaller kva / voltage gives smaller Amp, this gives smaller feeder , service cable.

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  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    Wait a minute, on my posted calculation all electric restaurant kva is smaller than not all electric restaurant kva. Therefore smaller kva / voltage gives smaller Amp, this gives smaller feeder , service cable.

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
    Take your 320kVA not-all-electric restaurant, and convert it to an all-electric restaurant. You will have to add all of the kva for the ranges, ovens, fryers, steam kettles, etc before you apply the all-electric demand factor.

    You are not comparing equal restaurants.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Newark, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by david luchini View Post
    Take your 320kVA not-all-electric restaurant, and convert it to an all-electric restaurant. You will have to add all of the kva for the ranges, ovens, fryers, steam kettles, etc before you apply the all-electric demand factor.

    You are not comparing equal restaurants.
    I dont think you are right.

    320kVA is calculated load, this means it includes what ever in the restaurant of the subject.(all electric restaurant, or not all electric restaurant)

    So my understanding is;

    320kva calculated load for All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 172kVA.
    320kva calculated load for Not-All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 260kVA.

    320kVA is already calculated load, means it includes what ever electrical equipments in the facility.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    I dont think you are right.

    320kVA is calculated load, this means it includes what ever in the restaurant of the subject.(all electric restaurant, or not all electric restaurant)

    So my understanding is;

    320kva calculated load for All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 172kVA.
    320kva calculated load for Not-All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 260kVA.

    320kVA is already calculated load, means it includes what ever electrical equipments in the facility.
    320kVA is the Connected Load. If you have a restaurant with a connected load of 320kVA where the major equipment is gas supplied equipment, and you decide to change it to an all-electric restaurant, the connected load is going to be larger than 320kVA. You will have to add the kVA for all of the gas equipment that you just changed to electric equipment.

  7. #17
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Newark, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by david luchini View Post
    320kVA is the Connected Load. If you have a restaurant with a connected load of 320kVA where the major equipment is gas supplied equipment, and you decide to change it to an all-electric restaurant, the connected load is going to be larger than 320kVA. You will have to add the kVA for all of the gas equipment that you just changed to electric equipment.
    But this table is for Brand new restaurant calculation, not for renovation.

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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    But this table is for Brand new restaurant calculation, not for renovation.

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    OK, you as an engineer are designing a restaurant that is planning to use gas for all of the major equipment. You come up with a connected load of 320kVA for the electrical.

    The owner comes to you before the design is complete and says that it is too expensive to bring gas to the building, so the equipment will all be electric, and asks you to redesign the building.
    When you complete your redesign, the connected load is going to be much greater than 320kVA because you had to add the kVA for the ranges, ovens, water heaters, dishwasher booster heater, etc, that were all originally gas equipment.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    23,492
    Quote Originally Posted by de2 View Post
    320kva calculated load for All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 172kVA.
    320kva calculated load for Not-All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 260kVA.

    320kVA is already calculated load, means it includes what ever electrical equipments in the facility.
    The all-electric restaurant will have a much smaller cooking capacity. Everyone is suggesting that you should be comparing two restaurants with similar cooking capacities, not similar electrical capacities.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

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