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Thread: Compliant or Not

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid?
    No you're not alone. I already said that I would want one, if I were the home owner.

    I strongly suspect that the countertop itself would be made as one continuous piece that covers the base of the peninsula section and the base of the 11" wall countertop section. So we can't tell whether,

    1. The base of the wall section is really 3'-11" wide and the peninsula base starts about 2 feet from the wall, or
    2. The base of the wall section is only 11" wide and the peninsula base starts at the wall.


    In the 2014 NEC, a peninsula started at the "connecting edge." Well the countertop surface has no connecting edge. In scenario 1 above, the peninsula base connects with the wall section base about 2 feet away from the wall. Was that the intended location of the "connecting edge," as that phrase was used in the 2014 NEC? I don't know. But the 2017 NEC clarified that the structure of the base cabinets is not relevant, and that the peninsula starts at the wall. So in the posted image there is an 11" wall section, and then the peninsula begins.

    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  2. #22
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    The graphic did not say the living or dining outlet has to be on a non appliance circuit, just that it has to be away from the countertop by 6 feet or non countertop circuits by 12 feet.
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamuit View Post
    I'm with you and Larry on this.

    I would count the 36" section of the peninsula as counter-top for receptacle spacing because it follows the plane of the wall.
    The thing is in 2014 you would have had to count that 36" as countertop for receptacle spacing. A change in last sentence in 210.52(C)(3) in 2017 now says the peninsula starts at the wall, so any one outlet on/near the peninsula can serve the whole peninsula. My guess is the intent was you could put one on that 36" section of wall and meet your (C)(3) requirement and not need the one they showed in OP picture on the side of the cabinet. That one (on the side of the cabinet) has been debated by many for about as long as I can remember as to it should be something code should require. Now they found a way to get around it, but created a conflict with what we have been used to for years.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamjamma View Post
    The graphic did not say the living or dining outlet has to be on a non appliance circuit, just that it has to be away from the countertop by 6 feet or non countertop circuits by 12 feet.
    My point was that if it was the dining room to the far right it could be on a small appliance branch circuit but not if the room were a living room.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid?

    My post just before yours states I would never do it that way but....

    I probably posted as you were typing....

    I think we all think it is dumb but by definition the peninsula connects at the wall and only requires one receptacle. The one on the end satisfies that.

    Now if there was one on the wall over the peninsula then one would not be needed at the end of the peninsula.


    Last edited by Dennis Alwon; 10-09-18 at 06:32 PM.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I think we all think it is dumb but by definition the peninsula connects at the wall and only requires one receptacle. The one on the end satisfies that.

    Now if there was one on the wall over the peninsula then one would not be needed at the end of the peninsula.
    I agree with both of your statements and from the 2017 NEC's perspective I find them equally as dumb.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  7. #27
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    I think possibly their intention was to allow the receptacle at the wall to serve the peninsula, but what they changed might have led to allowing circumstances they never thought about being a possibility that otherwise complies with what they wrote. Anybody know if there will likely be changes to this in 2020?
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  8. #28
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    Isn't the 48" counter receptacle philosophy predicated on most countery top appliances for kitchens having short {24" or less} cords? ~RJ~

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I think possibly their intention was to allow the receptacle at the wall to serve the peninsula, but what they changed might have led to allowing circumstances they never thought about being a possibility that otherwise complies with what they wrote. Anybody know if there will likely be changes to this in 2020?

    I believe there are some crazy proposal for 2020. Not sure what their status is.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid?
    No, as I stated in my previous post.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

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