Heavy antique chandeliers; correct method for hanging

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wszolecn

Member
Location
Union, WV, USA
Greetings all,

We are approximately 85% complete with the restoration of our 1838 classical revival home (built by Thomas Jefferson's favorite mason, William B Phillips) and it is time to hang three antique chandeliers purchased earlier from Europe.

The heaviest weights about 120 pounds and the others are about half of that weight.

A year ago while we had the ceilings open, we were lead to understand that the use of ceiling fan boxes (rated, I believe for about 150 pound each) would suffice for the support of these. I installed the ceiling fan boxes employing through- bolts/washers/lock washers (rather than lag bolts) into heavy oak blocking provided between our 4x12 floor joists and the project progressed towards finishes with drywall installation, etc. The boxes are currently good for at least 500 pounds each. Presently we have finished ceilings with the boxes exposed and wired, and we are contemplating hanging these fixtures. However, in speaking to our local electrical supply house, I understand that they cannot provide a hook for the chandeliers that will attach to the two screws in the ceiling fan boxes. Can I use these boxes to hang the chandeliers? Or will I need to demo some sheetrock on each side and install a piece of cable around the structural members above? I am glad I discovered this forum as information on this in the US is scanty. Thanks
 

wszolecn

Member
Location
Union, WV, USA
What does the hardware look like for these fixtures. Are they listed? Do you have pictures?
Thanks Dennis. I could send an image, but essentially the heaviest one has a heavy old fashioned iron chain with the wire routed through the chain. There is no canopy. The chain is hung on a heavy wrought iron hook.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Greetings all,

.... Can I use these boxes to hang the chandeliers? Or will I need to demo some sheetrock on each side and install a piece of cable around the structural members above? ... Thanks

Welcome to the forums.

I suggest you check with the box manufacturer either through literature available online or through their tech support/ customer service dep't as to what loads it will carry and how to attach the loads. All we know is that you have "a box".

I'm curious what heights you're dealing with. It's common to hang chandeliers on cranes when high heights are involved.
 

wszolecn

Member
Location
Union, WV, USA
Ceilings are 12 feet and rooms are 20 feet square. No need for cranes for these as they will be low enough to access and installation weights are not really very much. Contact w the manufacturer has not panned out. Again thanks for your thoughts but goes there's no new ideas.

I will open the ceilings tomorrow and install structurally rated eye bolts.

Best regards
 

SceneryDriver

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Electrical and Automation Designer
Ceilings are 12 feet and rooms are 20 feet square. No need for cranes for these as they will be low enough to access and installation weights are not really very much. Contact w the manufacturer has not panned out. Again thanks for your thoughts but goes there's no new ideas.

I will open the ceilings tomorrow and install structurally rated eye bolts.

Best regards

Read through this thread before you install anything.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=155715

If these are really 120lb fixtures, get a structural engineer involved BEFORE anything goes in the air. That kind of weight in one spot is plenty enough to break the building and kill someone. Simply screwing in some "structurally rated eye bolts" aren't gonna cut it. What size are the eyebolts? What's their load rating? Design factor? What are they attached to? Is it an engineered solution, or a guess? What's the load rating of the rest of the hardware chain? How do you know the boxes are good for "at least 500lb?" How are you planning on forming that cable into a loop? What hardware is correct for that application?

If you can't answer these questions, do yourself a favor and get a structural engineer and a rigger involved.

As I said in that linked to thread, I'm a rigger, among other hats I wear. Where are you located? I'm on the east coast, NYC. PM me if you'd like some more assistance.



SceneryDriver
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
If these are really 120lb fixtures, get a structural engineer involved BEFORE anything goes in the air. That kind of weight in one spot is plenty enough to break the building and kill someone.
I weigh more than 120lbs. I would venture to say I could sleep like Rip Van Winkle in a hammock suspended from an eye bolt anchored the way the OP described and be all right.
 

wszolecn

Member
Location
Union, WV, USA
Thanks Scenerydriver for your interesting and humorous post. Glad to know you are a rigger. I am in fact an engineer. Have been in charge of erection of reactors, towers and drums weighing up to 1890 tons. Two propylene rectifiers, for example on the Red Sea coast for the Petro-Rabigh refinery I was a senior PM on in 2008…. Ringer cranes, Mammoet crane BTC and MSG employed - world class stuff. Enough on that...

My chandelier can easily be suspended from a nice bolt rated for 250 pounds and I will lift it myself with a helper up onto the scaffold I have erected for the purpose. I was hoping to learn from electrical guys if I might have missed doing something easier, like attaching the fixture to the ceiling fan box that was supposed to be able to support up to 150 pounds. Oh well...

Again thanks to all and I guess, as I could not learn anything else here, we can just close this thread…..

Best regards
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
He said Europe no need for 410.6 (NRTL'S) over there just the CE mark -- use 2 eyebolts - 1 is for attaching a pully system to raise fixture high enough to attach a locking carebiner between fixture chain & 2nd eye bolt -- Shame an educated person like yourself can't learn from these post
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Just a note: 150lb weight rating comes from proper installation of a fan box with 16" framing. If it's 24", that rating gets cut in half or less with most t-bar boxes Ive seen. Also, if it were installed with drywall screws instead of mfg screws, all bets are off. Sure, a 50lb ceiling fan will *probably* be okay, but personally there is almost no way I would trust an existing box to support 120lbs indefinitely.
 

north star

Senior Member
Location
inside Area 51
# # #


wszolecn,

May I ask "who led you to believe" that the boxes would be sufficient ?

Also, ...IMO, the approved type of junction box installed should be affixed
to the structural ceiling framing, where the framing is on top of the
existing ceiling joists and not installed between the 4 x 12's........Gravity
is constant and will eventually detach the j-box from between the
framed elements installed "between" the ceiling joists.

Just sayin'...



# # #
 

Martin B

Member
Location
Nebraska
Its probably to late but I recently worked on an old commercial building and had to "re-install" two heavy chandeliers. I used a steal Flange (5/8" diameter female threads) that I screwed rite through the back of the box into the framing using lag bolts. Then I used a 5/8" nipple and a type of coupling that has a hole in the side for your fixture wire to enter the box from the inside of the nipple (I think its called a hickey). The fixture loop and canopy where also hollow to accommodate the fixture wire. I'm sure this set up will last forever (or at least till im dead). I'll try to attach pictures of some of the parts. I think you should be able to order them from your local antique lighting dealer.

22913.jpg
22876.jpg
images
images
how-to-replace-an-incandescent-light-fixture-2.jpg
 

rt66electric

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
My Dmas 14 yr old

My Dmas 14 yr old

off on a tangent.... but ... will it hold????.....

I really though a I built a solid swing for my 14yrold boy( mom made me .. therapy for autism.. the walmart special crumpled at 90lbs) it was made of 2 in GRC welded together at the corners and 10 ft(joints of GRC) screwed on legs( I almost stole one leg to finish a emergency weekend job)..


ANYHOWS.... I heard a THUMP....... while piddling in the garage............ I rushed out to see my kid at a ARKWARD angle resting (moaning AWW-@@@@@ that hurts ) against my house.........

I said ........ " Wait DON'T MOVE let me get my camera"

The kid ....wore out a 3/8 inch solid steel threaded chain link !!!!!!! in less than 3 months??????

I gave him a grease gun.,.... and said ...............
 

Martin B

Member
Location
Nebraska
would you "support" your "120 lbs child" from this " point of attachment?" and expect it to remain there for 100 years?

Some of the hardware I used was saved from when the fixtures where taken down for the remodel. I did have to order a couple of pieces. My point I guess is that the building was about a hundred years old, the chandelier hung there nicely until someone took it down. I think it would have stayed there for meany more years.

I reinstalled it the same way. I honestly feel good about the means of support and am not worried about them falling. I would not have walked away from the job otherwise.
 
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