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Thread: Here's why drywallers should be licensed

  1. #41
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    Aug 2009
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    Central NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    A client purchased a house with Chinese drywall. All of the electrical devices had corrosion on the terminal screws and bare parts of the wires. He ripped out all the drywall and hired us to remove all the devices, trim back the wires to shiny copper, and re-install new devices. After the new drywall was installed we trimmed out the house.

    It's been a couple of months and he's getting ready to move in and noticed there's no power in several parts of the house. (My guy should have tested everything before he said he was done, but that's another story.) So I go over and start troubleshooting and discover the drywall guys covered up four receptacle boxes and of course they did not get made up and so everything past them was dead.

    I'm charging him extra for the troubleshooting and uncovering of hidden boxes and I'll suggest he back-charge the drywall contractor which probably won't happen.

    Luckily for me, I have experienced this problem so many times before that I take pictures of the entire house before the drywall goes up so I can find hidden boxes. It's a nightmare without pictures or x-ray vision. The poor quality of drywall crews is mind boggling.
    Anyone might do that occasionally but a former boss and I worked for a GC that did this on nearly every job. I fully blamed him, not his crew. He sold himself as a high end GC and got a lot of jobs in upper class homes but he was little better than someone from down the tracks. He pushed speed above all else. They covered boxes, ripped up some boxes and wiring with rotozips, and covered can lights. They didn't finish around boxes unless they were in a joint. Quarter to half inch gaps around boxes were not unusual. Then he would fuss at us for taking too long. I came close to putting a hammer in his no good skull more than once.

    Crews used to mark boxes and cut rock before putting it up. Now they mark center and rotozip it. Rotzips should be illegal in my book.
    Yes, I'll be happy to do a first class job for less than anyone else and take a dollar a week for 10 years.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    23,696
    Being licensed for home and commercial improvement as well as electrical, I've done my share of drywall. I always measure in two directions, making a begin and end mark in each dimension, then draw a rectangle to cut out.

    I do the same thing with recessed cans. Two marks in each direction, draw a square, draw two diagonals, and place the pilot bit on the X. Perfect placement every time. For ceilings, a drywall lift is a must; great for walls, too.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Central NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Being licensed for home and commercial improvement as well as electrical, I've done my share of drywall. I always measure in two directions, making a begin and end mark in each dimension, then draw a rectangle to cut out.

    I do the same thing with recessed cans. Two marks in each direction, draw a square, draw two diagonals, and place the pilot bit on the X. Perfect placement every time. For ceilings, a drywall lift is a must; great for walls, too.
    We sure needed you on those jobs. You would have been a blessing. You wouldn't believe the stuff this GC did. In fact, I see very few drywallers cut out any more, all do x's and rotozips. Not all are as destructive as this GC's crew but I still don't like them.

    Carlon came out with the slider box shortly after we worked for him. If I were doing over again, I'd install those and set them an inch out, so they couldn't be buried. I could hear the GC shouting now.
    Yes, I'll be happy to do a first class job for less than anyone else and take a dollar a week for 10 years.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Tampa, FL, USA
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    What I'm seeing here is the need for a new product (or somebody making me aware of an existing product) that goes inside boxes and blocks rotozip blades from cutting the wires. I'm thinking friction fit, 1/16" steel, with a little handle in the middle for removal. When installed, it will sit 1/4" back inside the box. Maybe it should have some words printed on too like "Hey drywall dude, you're supposed to cut around the outside of the box, not the inside."

    Also, some new contract language is needed such as "each instance where the drywall is not cut correctly around a junction box including: (1) the box being hidden; (2) the box being too deep within the wall; (3) the box being damaged; (4) the wires being damaged; and any other similar occurance resulting in extra time and materials to repair; shall be charged as an extra item."

  5. #45
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    Sardis, Ohio
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    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    What I'm seeing here is the need for a new product (or somebody making me aware of an existing product) that goes inside boxes and blocks rotozip blades from cutting the wires. I'm thinking friction fit, 1/16" steel, with a little handle in the middle for removal. When installed, it will sit 1/4" back inside the box. Maybe it should have some words printed on too like "Hey drywall dude, you're supposed to cut around the outside of the box, not the inside."

    Also, some new contract language is needed such as "each instance where the drywall is not cut correctly around a junction box including: (1) the box being hidden; (2) the box being too deep within the wall; (3) the box being damaged; (4) the wires being damaged; and any other similar occurance resulting in extra time and materials to repair; shall be charged as an extra item."
    They had these at a job I did a couple years ago:

    http://www.bcbblanks.com/

    They are metal blanks that clip onto boxes with plastic inserts. The inserts get thrown away and the plates reused. They protect from rotozips and from drywall mud.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
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    10,165
    I had the opposite problem when my house was built. Before the drywall went up I put in a bunch of boxes for coaxial, speaker wire, and CAT5 drops. Each one was wired to a loop of the conductor(s) stapled to a rafter in the attic. Since I didn't know where I'd eventually want these drops to be, I put in a lot of them. I mounted each box right on top of an outlet box so I could find them later and I told the GC to tell the rockers to cover them all. That message did not get to the rockers, so they opened them all.

  7. #47
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    Dec 2007
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    NE Nebraska
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    38,500
    Quote Originally Posted by jmellc View Post
    Anyone might do that occasionally but a former boss and I worked for a GC that did this on nearly every job. I fully blamed him, not his crew. He sold himself as a high end GC and got a lot of jobs in upper class homes but he was little better than someone from down the tracks. He pushed speed above all else. They covered boxes, ripped up some boxes and wiring with rotozips, and covered can lights. They didn't finish around boxes unless they were in a joint. Quarter to half inch gaps around boxes were not unusual. Then he would fuss at us for taking too long. I came close to putting a hammer in his no good skull more than once.

    Crews used to mark boxes and cut rock before putting it up. Now they mark center and rotozip it. Rotzips should be illegal in my book.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmellc View Post
    We sure needed you on those jobs. You would have been a blessing. You wouldn't believe the stuff this GC did. In fact, I see very few drywallers cut out any more, all do x's and rotozips. Not all are as destructive as this GC's crew but I still don't like them.

    Carlon came out with the slider box shortly after we worked for him. If I were doing over again, I'd install those and set them an inch out, so they couldn't be buried. I could hear the GC shouting now.
    I have hung a fair amount of drywall, and have used rotozip to cut out boxes. If you don't get into too big of a rush one can do a pretty good job and generally get tighter fitting against boxes than pre-cutting sometimes leaves you. Whoever finishes the drywall does need to know they need to fix large cutouts or mishaps though. The crews that do nothing but hang drywall every day are the worst, they are always in big hurry because they are paid by the job not the hour, so the more they can get done in a day the more they can make, but often make many mistakes in the process. Some are docked for missed cutouts and such things which has helped make them do a better job, but if you don't find the missed cutout until you come to finish they have already been paid and has been long enough they probably don't even remember being on that job.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    I had the opposite problem when my house was built. Before the drywall went up I put in a bunch of boxes for coaxial, speaker wire, and CAT5 drops. Each one was wired to a loop of the conductor(s) stapled to a rafter in the attic. Since I didn't know where I'd eventually want these drops to be, I put in a lot of them. I mounted each box right on top of an outlet box so I could find them later and I told the GC to tell the rockers to cover them all. That message did not get to the rockers, so they opened them all.
    I've had problems with telling them or leaving notes that you want something covered and they cut it out or bring a coil of cable out that you intended to cut a hole for later when you knew exactly where to bring it out. Also put a staple right at edge of a stud and leave a note to force them to cut a hole and bring a cable through the rock - and they cover it anyway.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  8. #48
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    Jun 2016
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    Tampa, FL, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbeery10 View Post
    They had these at a job I did a couple years ago:

    http://www.bcbblanks.com/

    They are metal blanks that clip onto boxes with plastic inserts. The inserts get thrown away and the plates reused. They protect from rotozips and from drywall mud.
    Those are cool. I like that you can find hidden boxes with a magnet.

  9. #49
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    Feb 2016
    Location
    Illinois
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    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    What I'm seeing here is the need for a new product (or somebody making me aware of an existing product) that goes inside boxes and blocks rotozip blades from cutting the wires. I'm thinking friction fit, 1/16" steel, with a little handle in the middle for removal. When installed, it will sit 1/4" back inside the box. Maybe it should have some words printed on too like "Hey drywall dude, you're supposed to cut around the outside of the box, not the inside."

    Also, some new contract language is needed such as "each instance where the drywall is not cut correctly around a junction box including: (1) the box being hidden; (2) the box being too deep within the wall; (3) the box being damaged; (4) the wires being damaged; and any other similar occurance resulting in extra time and materials to repair; shall be charged as an extra item."
    An old sparky in my area carries a 5 gallon bucket of rectangles he cut out of 1/2” plywood he sticks in every box during rough in.

  10. #50
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    Aug 2009
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    Central NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
    Those are cool. I like that you can find hidden boxes with a magnet.
    I'll have to look at these. Haven't heard of them before. Great idea.
    Yes, I'll be happy to do a first class job for less than anyone else and take a dollar a week for 10 years.

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