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Thread: What elements can I put inside a ceiling outlet box?

  1. #1
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    What elements can I put inside a ceiling outlet box?

    Dear friends.

    I'm developing a new LED luminaire and I would like to know if I can use the ceiling outlet box to put into the driver for my LED luminaire.

    With this solution my luminaire can be smaller and more profitable.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I have seen it done that way with certain brands of lights but IMO it can be an issue depending on how many wires are in the box and how deep the box might be. Give yourself a good canopy for the driver to sit in-- that's my opinion. Of course, you would have to get it listed here in the states.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
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  3. #3
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    Ceiling outlet boxes can get really small. Many of them might be roughly 85 mm diameter x 10 mm, like this:



    https://www.zoro.com/raco-electrical...AaAjwTEALw_wcB

  4. #4
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    Welcome to The Forum.

    Assuming this is physically possible, how do you calculate box fill for an LED driver?

    assuming this is not an NEC issue, how would an engineer determine heat dissipation for a small plastic box versus a larger metal one? Is the Box against insulation or not?

    What I'm getting at is that even if it were possible to put the driver in the box, there are better options. LED drivers for recessed lights have a box that slides into the ceiling above the drywall... It's neither in the junction box nor the luminaire.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Welcome to The Forum.

    Assuming this is physically possible, how do you calculate box fill for an LED driver?

    assuming this is not an NEC issue, how would an engineer determine heat dissipation for a small plastic box versus a larger metal one? Is the Box against insulation or not?

    What I'm getting at is that even if it were possible to put the driver in the box, there are better options. LED drivers for recessed lights have a box that slides into the ceiling above the drywall... It's neither in the junction box nor the luminaire.

    Yes it is possible as I stated above I have done this but it is a real pita. LBL has some LED pendants and they offer a flat canopy(driver in the box, or remote driver) or a domed shaped canopy with the driver inside the canopy.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  6. #6
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    It is very new for me

    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Welcome to The Forum.

    Assuming this is physically possible, how do you calculate box fill for an LED driver?

    assuming this is not an NEC issue, how would an engineer determine heat dissipation for a small plastic box versus a larger metal one? Is the Box against insulation or not?

    What I'm getting at is that even if it were possible to put the driver in the box, there are better options. LED drivers for recessed lights have a box that slides into the ceiling above the drywall... It's neither in the junction box nor the luminaire.

    Thank you for your kind comments.

    Is in USA a standard or rule for the outlet boxes? I mean, if the dimmensions are managed by a rule/standard

    If I'm the luminaire manufacturer I can add into the instructions manual "put the driver inside the outlet box" but I don't know what is the size installed in the ceiling.

    I'm lost about these issues.

    Thanks.

  7. #7
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    Then is not a good idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I have seen it done that way with certain brands of lights but IMO it can be an issue depending on how many wires are in the box and how deep the box might be. Give yourself a good canopy for the driver to sit in-- that's my opinion. Of course, you would have to get it listed here in the states.
    After reading your comments seem that I can test in my laboratory in my own outlet box, but maybe in the customer's house the outlet box is not like mine.

    Solution ca be putting all in a canopy or inside the surface luminaire body. The luminaire is low voltage (33VDC) but I'm not sure if the metal enclosure must be grounded. In my opinion is not necessary because ground is in the metal outlet box and driver hasn't ground output.

    thanks.

  8. #8
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    Recessed vs Surface LED luminaire

    Wow, it is very difficult to develope complete products when you are new in the electrical installations.

    In summary my main problems are:

    LED CEILING SURFACE LUMINAIRE (Voltage 33VDC)

    - I would like to install the driver and connections inside the outlet box in order to avoid ground connection in the metal luminaire body
    - If I use a deeper canopy sure that I can install my driver but I don't know if I have to connect the metal luminaire to ground




    LED RECESSED LUMINAIRE (Voltage 33VDC)

    - If I'm only theluminaire manufacturer, my obligation is only to list/certificate the luminaire according to UL stanndard. But the installation means (outlet boxes, housings...) are obligation from installator. Isn't?
    - All my luminaires are Non-IC because if I put isolating material the temperature is greater than 90ÂșC so the UL certification is failed. So, I can sell my luminaire as "Non-IC" directly or I can offer a "IC housing" to get the IC option. Isn't?
    - Should be listed the IC housings?
    - I would like to offer too a mounting frame for new constructions, but with possibilities for different sizes (3,4,5 inches) Do you know any universal piece and supplier?
    - Also I would like to have a mounting frame with the possibility to add a box for changing into IC. Is it possible?
    - Do you know a good supplier/shop for IC housings, mounting frames and similar?
    - Is it possible to find an IC housing where a luminaire can be fixed with lateral springs like in the next photo?


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    Thank you for all your help.

    Best regards friends.

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