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Thread: Frustrated about bidding vs T&M...

  1. #11
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    Yes, T&M, now would be a good time to massage in "your" T&M pricing for when they come back and say lower. You set the bar and let them counter. Who can approve the T&M.
    Of course you need to give them a scope of work, just not a billing break down.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameguy View Post
    Do not give a detailed list! If you do they will shop your idea out to others.
    ^^^^word!!!
    &&&&.....

    One can't bid reno's w/o x-ray eyes

    ~RJ~

  3. #13
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    The supervisor that I looked over the job with is fairly knowledgeable. I'm confident that if I gave him a number and general scope of work that he felt was fair he would approve it with his higher-ups consent.

    He already knew things were not kosher at this facility. He's been with the organization for about 3 years so he wasn't involved in any of the existing issues. He realizes that the service needs upgrading.

    This organization owns several hotels and other businesses in the community. The laundry facility serves all their laundering needs.

    They keep me pretty busy with a lot of service calls and small to medium size jobs so I want to make this thing happen

  4. #14
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    Just a few things more...

    Your price on the panel is for a MCB panel. Square D qo that I looked up was about the same. A MLO panel is about $250.

    Looking at the way the conduits come into the panel, I would be inclined to leave it in place (or turn it into a junction box) and feed another panel from the existing, if you have space. The feeder coming in the back of the panel like it does is going to be more difficult to work around if installing a new, larger panel in the old ones place.

    Moving and cutting all of that EMT would be a huge amount of labor for me. there are no conduits coming into the side of the panel, however I do not know what is out of frame... installing a new panel next to the old and nippling into it would save a ton of time and make your bid that much more competitive.

    The conduit fill on the feeder looks pretty tight already, though at least they are aluminum conductors... You can pull them out and rerun copper if you need more ampacity. If you can reuse them, you're going to have to budget in some Polaris connectors to extend them to your new panel

    As for the existing fused disconnects, some of those may be in rough shape internally. I would hazard a guess that the ones that are line side tapped to feed other machines probably have violations with number of conductors under a lug. If you are going with all 15 and 20 amp breakers and individual circuits, it may be better to rip all of that out and just put in non fused disconnects. If machines are within sight of panel (or not), I don't even think they are required... I would definitely research that if in your shoes.

    Like others have written, definitely do not give them a line by line on what you are doing.

    Eta: as far as the code violations like improperly supported boxes and EMT, I would spend an hour or so on the Erico/Caddy website looking at all of the different types of fasteners that they carry. a little clip that you can slide up behind the conduit and then drill into a block wall is going to be much faster then cutting pieces of Unistrut and attaching the ENT or boxes to it like you might in new construction
    Last edited by JFletcher; 12-06-18 at 05:17 PM.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  5. #15
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    Where

    Where does 210-8 say it applies to a commercial laundry?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sw_ross View Post
    Not sure why my pics always turn out sideways!
    I've not experimented with this forum, but some (most) cameras identify orientation. Is some cases, mostly with PDF files, I've changed the orientation via pdfexchange so it looks "right" to the downloader. For other needs, I've opened, rotated, made some inconsequential edit of jpg to have it show "correctly" using irfanview.

    Looks like it is time to find the test sub-forum and do some experimentation ... then write it up. Maybe this weekend ... ???

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJFarms View Post
    Where does 210-8 say it applies to a commercial laundry?
    Welcome to The Forum. 210.8 B, other than dwelling units.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  8. #18
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    Do

    Here is what you do tell them you'll take care of all of it and will install a new sub panel and the price is $ 3,850.00 Call me if you want me to start tomorrow and walk away. DO NOT WASTE ANYMORE TIME!!!!! I forbid you. They will take it or leave it. Also, on another note I found laundry mats to be very cheap up there with carwash's. So I usually never work for them. I"d possibly just make that old panel a box and run some large flex somewhere and set new sub panel. They really don't care about looks this and that they just want fast, safe and CHEAP and everything works!!!
    Last edited by Cletis; 12-08-18 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJFarms View Post
    Where does 210-8 say it applies to a commercial laundry?
    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Welcome to The Forum. 210.8 B, other than dwelling units.
    It doesn't specifically list laundry areas in (B). GFCI would be required if said equipment were within six feet of a sink, an indoor wet location, or any of the other 8 less likely areas mentioned there to have laundry equipment.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  10. #20
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    First;

    What is the scope?

    The big dollars is if you have to change the sub feeder. If not, a big price difference.

    What is the current load.? Put a meter on it when you think all is on or figure the load if all is coming from the laundry (take the demand)

    Then, if your new loads exceed the present subfeed, then you should charge to upgrade. Usually, when I upgrade, upgrade to 20 to 40 percent spare capacity.

    Now we are at the main panel where the original breaker is. Can the frame handle 100A or 125 to 150/ 200?
    I would start at the load and then price accordingly. Its the right way but it doesn't mean contractor two that bids it will do it that way...

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