Does this violate code?

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Pizza

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
I'm wiring a showroom that will have 4 TVs mounted at 15' high on a wall. On the other side of the wall there is a second level mezzanine. Both sides of the wall are finished Sheetrock.
The owners would like for the receptacles for the TVs to be located in the wall and be accessed from a hidden door access panel on the mezzanine side and they would run the cords through the wall and into the in receptacles.
I envision mounting a 1900 box with 4 plex ID cover in the wall and leaving it up to them to make a access panel.

They want it like this for ease of unplugging the TVs. I know it's stupid.
Is this compliant or is there a way to make it compliant? Does a cord for a TV fall under 400.8(5)?


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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I don't believe it is compliant to pass cords through a wall.
What is wrong with the standard wall mount tv receptacle and Low voltage behind the tv.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Legal would be to have receptacles on the walls behind the TVs and small access hatches through the wall next to them to allow reaching through to make the connections. Both AC and audio/video.

Unless the wall is a firewall, of course.

PS: I can see problems with reaching behind TVs from the front with closely packed big screen units. Stopping with it off the shelf for someone to unplug everything could actually be dangerous.
 
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Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
IMO it does not violate code as the TV (appliance) cord is not the same cord as 400.7 & .8.

But I would suggest to the owners that they allow you to put in recessed TV boxes w/receptacles. They could also run HDMI or other cables into the box. If the TV needs unplugging then it also probably means it needs taking down. So you just reach behind, pull out the plug and take the TV down. If they just want to make sure power is off to a TV you could always run the receptacles from a switch.
 

Pizza

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
I don't believe it is compliant to pass cords through a wall.
What is wrong with the standard wall mount tv receptacle and Low voltage behind the tv.

They don't want it, they want easy access on the other side of the wall for all the cords.


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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Most TV's today do not have a permanently installed cord. So I would think Article 400.8 would be a good argument that it is not allowed.
If there was a complete finished cutout then with access door I think it would then be compliant.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I'm wiring a showroom that will have 4 TVs mounted at 15' high on a wall. On the other side of the wall there is a second level mezzanine. Both sides of the wall are finished Sheetrock.
The owners would like for the receptacles for the TVs to be located in the wall and be accessed from a hidden door access panel on the mezzanine side and they would run the cords through the wall and into the in receptacles.
I envision mounting a 1900 box with 4 plex ID cover in the wall and leaving it up to them to make a access panel.

They want it like this for ease of unplugging the TVs. I know it's stupid.
Is this compliant or is there a way to make it compliant? Does a cord for a TV fall under 400.8(5)?


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If that is in fact a mezzanine than what you're dealing with is likely not a wall, because a mezzanine is by definition open the area below, max % floor area, travel distance, etc. This means smoke & fire are non-issues.

Since the mezzanine is open to the area below, can you just put an opening in this "wall" and install a single gang receptacle facing the center of this opening? This way the cords only go into the opening; they don't pass "through" anything. You can have an access panel from the upstairs.

Anyone disagree with that?
 

Pizza

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
If that is in fact a mezzanine than what you're dealing with is likely not a wall, because a mezzanine is by definition open the area below, max % floor area, travel distance, etc. This means smoke & fire are non-issues.

Since the mezzanine is open to the area below, can you just put an opening in this "wall" and install a single gang receptacle facing the center of this opening? This way the cords only go into the opening; they don't pass "through" anything. You can have an access panel from the upstairs.

Anyone disagree with that?

Its definitely a wall that has windows looking out into the show room. I guess I should of called it a conference room or multi purpose room instead. None the less it's a finished room.


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mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Its definitely a wall that has windows looking out into the show room. I guess I should of called it a conference room or multi purpose room instead. None the less it's a finished room.


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You need to find out if it has a fire rating requirement.

If it does have a fire rating requirement, you can still use my idea and use a fire rated access door. But don't spend that money unless you need to.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
If a "window" was framed in behind each TV say 14" x 14", I dont see a problem with mounting the electrical and video boxes inside that window to the framing, and using one of these to cover the mezzanine side, leave the other side behiond the TV open... provided it isnt a rated wall. The cords would not be in the wall this way.

eta:

If that is in fact a mezzanine than what you're dealing with is likely not a wall, because a mezzanine is by definition open the area below, max % floor area, travel distance, etc. This means smoke & fire are non-issues.

Since the mezzanine is open to the area below, can you just put an opening in this "wall" and install a single gang receptacle facing the center of this opening? This way the cords only go into the opening; they don't pass "through" anything. You can have an access panel from the upstairs.

Anyone disagree with that?

I agree with that; you beat me to it.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Why not put a switched receptacle on the TV side with the switch on the mezzanine side; put the switch in cabinet. Alternative would be to put the switch low on the TV side.

There's a smart one! :thumbsup:

Not sure what their objective is but that's good thinking.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Why not put a switched receptacle on the TV side with the switch on the mezzanine side; put the switch in cabinet. Alternative would be to put the switch low on the TV side.

The OP asked about putting the receptacle on the mezzanine side, he didn't ask about having switches. Is it, or is it not illegal. A simple question. Perhaps not as simple an answer.

If it is a fire wall then the cord would require a fire rated pass through. I bet that an STI EZ path, or a Hilti 653 2" would both work. If the wall has not rating, as long as the cable is in a "pass through" instead of finished in to the wall, then I can't see any reason why it would be illegal.

Give the customer what he is asking for.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
The OP asked about putting the receptacle on the mezzanine side, he didn't ask about having switches. Is it, or is it not illegal. A simple question. Perhaps not as simple an answer.

If it is a fire wall then the cord would require a fire rated pass through. I bet that an STI EZ path, or a Hilti 653 2" would both work. If the wall has not rating, as long as the cable is in a "pass through" instead of finished in to the wall, then I can't see any reason why it would be illegal.

Give the customer what he is asking for.
I would say that it's illegal. "400.8 uses not permitted, (2) where run through holes in walls......"

I'm still not sure where everyone get's that an appliance cord is different than a flexible cord. If you look at Appliances (cords) in the index, it says see cords, flexible.

Not really a hard section to understand.

400.7 allows you to use flexible cord on appliances. It doesn't say that if you use one that you may disregard 400.8
 
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Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I would say that it's illegal. "400.8 uses not permitted, (2) where run through holes in walls......"

I'm still not sure where everyone get's that an appliance cord is different than a flexible cord. If you look at Appliances (cords) in the index, it says see cords, flexible.

Not really a hard section to understand.

400.7 allows you to use flexible cord on appliances. It doesn't say that if you use one that you may disregard 400.8


But is a 4" pipe sleeve or a finished opening a "hole in the wall"? I contend it isn't.
 

Fitzdrew516

Senior Member
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I'm wiring a showroom that will have 4 TVs mounted at 15' high on a wall. On the other side of the wall there is a second level mezzanine. Both sides of the wall are finished Sheetrock.
The owners would like for the receptacles for the TVs to be located in the wall and be accessed from a hidden door access panel on the mezzanine side and they would run the cords through the wall and into the in receptacles.
I envision mounting a 1900 box with 4 plex ID cover in the wall and leaving it up to them to make a access panel.

They want it like this for ease of unplugging the TVs. I know it's stupid.
Is this compliant or is there a way to make it compliant? Does a cord for a TV fall under 400.8(5)?


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Power supply cords (what are used by T.V's) are not governed by article 400 because they are not flexible cords. Look at annex A. Flexible cords and cables fall within UL 62. Cord sets and power supply cords (which is what you have here) fall within UL 817.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da5SMuqQJ_8

I think Ryan brings up a good point in the middle of this video and if the language in UL 817 does state that power supply cables are made of flexible cords then this becomes even more complicated. As Mike says though - We should expect some clarification in the upcoming edition of the NEC.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Power supply cords (what are used by T.V's) are not governed by article 400 because they are not flexible cords. Look at annex A. Flexible cords and cables fall within UL 62. Cord sets and power supply cords (which is what you have here) fall within UL 817.


Many AHJs do not share that view.
 

Pizza

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
The OP asked about putting the receptacle on the mezzanine side, he didn't ask about having switches. Is it, or is it not illegal. A simple question. Perhaps not as simple an answer.

If it is a fire wall then the cord would require a fire rated pass through. I bet that an STI EZ path, or a Hilti 653 2" would both work. If the wall has not rating, as long as the cable is in a "pass through" instead of finished in to the wall, then I can't see any reason why it would be illegal.

Give the customer what he is asking for.

Not a fire rated wall.


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