Solid vs. Stranded....

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emahler

Senior Member
We are doing a project right now where the A/E's are adamant about all wiring #10 and smaller must be solid....

can anyone give me a viable reason (other than "it's easier to wire a device") that would justify this requirement?

thanks
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
emahler said:
We are doing a project right now where the A/E's are adamant about all wiring #10 and smaller must be solid....

can anyone give me a viable reason (other than "it's easier to wire a device") that would justify this requirement?

thanks

cost-- stranded cost more than solid
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
emahler said:
A/E's are adamant about all wiring #10 and smaller must be solid....can anyone give me a viable reason

Since prints rarely control conduit-mounting path for any trade, specifying solid-wire branch circuits is good punishment for using LB's, undersized boxes, and not planning wall space with other trades.
 

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I once read an article in EC&M that claimed that in the long term solid conductors would waste less power then stranded. Don't really know if its true or not.

IMO solid conductors do better then stranded in wet locations.
 

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
We usually see the same requirements in the spec. Then we always include in our submittal that we intend to use stranded wire. With the exception of pool wiring, IMO no wire larger than #12 should ever be solid.
 

bbaumer

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
If the Engineer gives the option of solid or stranded and solid is cheaper and easier then why do the EC's always use stranded?

I've been out of the EC game for a long while but when I was solid was cheaper but not by much at all. I think it was less then $1 per thousand cheaper.

If you allow combo side and back wired devices (not the stab-in-the-back pieces of junk but the screw compression type) then I don't think terminating devices is any easier with solid.
 

steelersman

Senior Member
Location
Lake Ridge, VA
bbaumer said:
If the Engineer gives the option of solid or stranded and solid is cheaper and easier then why do the EC's always use stranded?

I've been out of the EC game for a long while but when I was solid was cheaper but not by much at all. I think it was less then $1 per thousand cheaper.

If you allow combo side and back wired devices (not the stab-in-the-back pieces of junk but the screw compression type) then I don't think terminating devices is any easier with solid.
Hey I love those stab in outlets and switches for residential. You can only use them for 14 guage not 12 but they are awesome IMHO. I've never had a problem with them. I've never had one pop out on me. They're great. I know commercial guys tend to think they are crap but they are huge timesavers.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Retired Electrical Contractor
steelersman said:
Hey I love those stab in outlets and switches for residential. You can only use them for 14 guage not 12 but they are awesome IMHO. I've never had a problem with them. I've never had one pop out on me. They're great. I know commercial guys tend to think they are crap but they are huge timesavers.

I love them also. I can't tell you how many service calls I get from you EC's that use the pop ins. You keep me employed. Thanks.:grin:
 

emahler

Senior Member
bbaumer, that's the point...what's the difference and why are they so adamant about using solid....when using back wired spec devices, the pressure plates actually make a better connection to stranded in my opinion....also, stranded #10 is easier to work with than solid #10....

i'm just not understanding the logic, if there is any....
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
steelersman said:
Hey I love those stab in outlets and switches for residential. You can only use them for 14 guage not 12 but they are awesome IMHO. I've never had a problem with them. I've never had one pop out on me. They're great. I know commercial guys tend to think they are crap but they are huge timesavers.


Your pretty brave admitting that :grin:
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Dennis Alwon said:
I love them also. I can't tell you how many service calls I get from you EC's that use the pop ins. You keep me employed. Thanks.:grin:


The reality is there are probably a gazillion backwired devices out there and while there certainly are failures I (and the UL obviously agrees) don't think it is really an issue.
 

bbaumer

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
emahler said:
bbaumer, that's the point...what's the difference and why are they so adamant about using solid....when using back wired spec devices, the pressure plates actually make a better connection to stranded in my opinion....also, stranded #10 is easier to work with than solid #10....

i'm just not understanding the logic, if there is any....

I think they work better with stranded too. That's why I spec them.

Years ago I had a "contest" of sorts with another engineer who argued that the backwired devices were inferior. I wired a backwired device with a single 4 or 5' length of #12 stranded and asked him to pull it out.

He stood on the wire and pulled up on the recep. He couldn't do it.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
peter d said:
Solid or stranded?

Yes.
Same here. I go back and fourth, mostly depending on what it'll be used for on the ends, and what type of devices are being used. I like pulling stranded better, but I hate myself if I have to terminate it around a screw.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
mdshunk said:
I like pulling stranded better, but I hate myself if I have to terminate it around a screw.

I pretty much use the BR receptacles exclusively for "commercial" applications. They just speed things up so much for marginal extra cost.
 
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