bracket boxes

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MR. S

Member
Location
Connecticut
A lot of guys are useing Romex staples to support 4" round plastic boxes. NEC article 314 states screws, nails or other approved methods. Are staples an approved method? I say no. They come back with the question then why are the mounting holes in the brackets spaced so a staple will fit perfectly? Mr. S
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
MR. S said:
Are staples an approved method?

Approved by whom? Certainly not an NRTL, as they do not list screws, nails, staples and such. They are approved by me for many uses, besides securing romex. Recessed can hanger bars, bath fan hanger bars, bar and bracket boxes, and many other things. I approve them, and apparently so do my normal inspectors. If you don't approve of them, then you can't use them.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
They come back with the question then why are the mounting holes in the brackets spaced so a staple will fit perfectly

I always assumed the same thing, I did it myself many times.

Do you have reason to believe the staples will fail?
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
just like using a nail for a tie handle on a breaker,

This has been clarified in the 2005 NEC, 240.20(B)(1), (2), and (3) now require "identified handle ties" for multipole breakers that are tied together.

Chris
 

MR. S

Member
Location
Connecticut
Reply to Bob

Reply to Bob

I feel that staples pull out too easy, and if you read the instructions on the box, they only state how many wires you can you can fit under them. There is nothing that says supporting anything else in the instructions. I don't think they are designed to support wieght, like a nail or screw.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
MR. S said:
I feel that staples pull out too easy, and if you read the instructions on the box, they only state how many wires you can you can fit under them. There is nothing that says supporting anything else in the instructions. I don't think they are designed to support wieght, like a nail or screw.

Are you kidding me? Do they make staples out of some kind of special low strength steel? Have you observed staples pulling out of bracket and bar boxes? You might have a leg to stand on if you've ever observed a failure. Until then, please permit me to think you're wacky. I use nails and screws normally, but I don't hesitate to use staples if that's what's handy. Sometimes you need to know when to pick your battles, so to speak. This isn't worth fussing over.
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
I use staples on solid wood, but screws on the TGI joists. (engeneered lumber, looks like an I-beam) Since I won't hang anything but small light on an 8B bar, I don't see a problem. Besides, if you yank on it, the bars come apart before the staples pull out.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Agreed. I, too, use staples to attach 2-hole brackets, such as Carlon 4" rounds on bars.

If you think staples pull out too easily, you haven't done much old work.


Besides, the shape of the staple points assure that they splay in different directions.
 
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marissa2

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
I have been watching this thread and I have not been too surprised about some of the replies. But first let me say that I have used staples to secure boxes, but that was many years ago and I wouldn't use them today. With that said I have a couple of questions. First, in this area we use Briscon staples and has anyone looked a container on what they say on it for instruction? I will say it doesn't say anything about boxes, so does that mean they can be used for mounting them. Second, how many times have I read "follow the manufactures instructions"? Third, these staples are UL approved maybe someone could tell me what they say if anything about what they can be used for. I would also tell you that a local inspector made an electrician remove all the staples he used to mount his boxes, maybe because of the first question.

marissa2
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
marissa2 said:
I have been watching this thread and I have not been too surprised about some of the replies. But first let me say that I have used staples to secure boxes, but that was many years ago and I wouldn't use them today. With that said I have a couple of questions. First, in this area we use Briscon staples and has anyone looked a container on what they say on it for instruction? I will say it doesn't say anything about boxes, so does that mean they can be used for mounting them. Second, how many times have I read "follow the manufactures instructions"? Third, these staples are UL approved maybe someone could tell me what they say if anything about what they can be used for. I would also tell you that a local inspector made an electrician remove all the staples he used to mount his boxes, maybe because of the first question.

marissa2

SO.... Do you use UL approved nails and screws to mount your bracket boxes now? C'mon... give me a break. My Viking staples don't say crap on them about how to use them. Would it make you feel better if I used a fence staple instead?
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
mdshunk said:
SO.... Do you use UL approved nails and screws to mount your bracket boxes now? C'mon... give me a break. My Viking staples don't say crap on them about how to use them. Would it make you feel better if I used a fence staple instead?


really now... the box will break before the staple does...
 

marissa2

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
mdshunk
No I do not, I don't kmow if yhey are UL listed, but what I am asking is what are staples listed for, that is the question that I think what was first asked. And what are nains or screws made for. If you have to use staples, so be it. But next time read the box of staples and follow the instructions like we all should.

marissa2
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
marissa2 said:
mdshunk
No I do not, I don't kmow if yhey are UL listed, but what I am asking is what are staples listed for, that is the question that I think what was first asked. And what are nains or screws made for. If you have to use staples, so be it. But next time read the box of staples and follow the instructions like we all should.

marissa2

I never saw on a box of nails "good for installation of an electrical box".. I think this is where that common sense thingy is suppose to kick in? just a thought
 

marissa2

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
stickboy1375
No you may not find a nail listed for a electrical box but like I asked and nobody has answered yet is what are nails and screws made for and what are staples made for. If the staples you use don't say anything then I guess you can use them for anything you want but Briscon does say "use on wire size", nothing about electrical boxes.

marissa2
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
This question did not come up at our Southwestern Section meeting last week, but this answer did.

Listed=Testing lab
Approved=AHJ

If the AHJ says it's ok then it's an approved method.

I personally don't like the staples, but like someone else eluded to is a 8 penny nail any stronger than a staple?
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
I`m sure enough people here have had their share of removing staples from structrual lumber for a ceiling box or a recessed can.I would rather remove a common nail than a staple.As already posted a staple goes in on a diagonal in essense,So now there are 2 nails in seperate directions held together by a common head.
Now lets go to screws.....Do you use a drywall screw ???? I think not no shear strenghth at all.Do you use a pan head screw ????? The holes on the boxes are to small.....Do you use common nails ????That is 4 nails per bar box......Is it just me, but a staple fits so good in the holes provided by the manufacturer it seems they are designed for staples :)
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
cowboyjwc said:
This question did not come up at our Southwestern Section meeting last week, but this answer did.

Listed=Testing lab
Approved=AHJ

If the AHJ says it's ok then it's an approved method.

I personally don't like the staples, but like someone else eluded to is a 8 penny nail any stronger than a staple?

I agree with the AHJ, if I can use a nail for a handle tie on a two pole breaker than I can use a staple for a electrical box... enough said...
 
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